Finding my Grandfather

[Tim Mitchell]

I am 64 years old and always wanted to find out about my German Grandfather, he fathered my dad in Dorset in 1914, but little is known about him as such it was all hushed up, my dad even changed his original surname to an English one, I was told he was interned for the duration of the great war, all I have is the Marriage certificate with his name and my Grandmothers name dated 1913, I have tried Ancestry but no luck

[ss002d6252]

5 minutes ago, Tim Mitchell said:

I am 64 years old and always wanted to find out about my German Grandfather, he fathered my dad in Dorset in 1914, but little is known about him as such it was all hushed up, my dad even changed his original surname to an English one, I was told he was interned for the duration of the great war, all I have is the Marriage certificate with his name and my Grandmothers name dated 1913, I have tried Ancestry but no luck

Welcome aboard - please tell us as much as you do know, as even minor details might help.

Craig

[PRC]

Hi @Tim Mitchell and welcome to the forum

Most likely interned on the Isle of Man, although he could have been shipped of to the likes of Canada.

I'm not sure if details are yet available via the International Committee of the Red Cross website https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/

If you care to give us a bit more information like his name, (German and English),  date \year of birth and who and where he married, then forum members may be able to turn up information for you. Have you been able to find him on the 1911 Census of England & Wales at all - or did he arrive after the 2nd April 1911 when that was taken.

Cheers,
Peter

[Tim Mitchell]

14 minutes ago, PRC said:

Hi @Tim Mitchell and welcome to the forum

Most likely interned on the Isle of Man, although he could have been shipped of to the likes of Canada.

I'm not sure if details are yet available via the International Committee of the Red Cross website https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/

If you care to give us a bit more information like his name, (German and English),  date \year of birth and who and where he married, then forum members may be able to turn up information for you. Have you been able to find him on the 1911 Census of England & Wales at all - or did he arrive after the 2nd April 1911 when that was taken.

Cheers,
Peter

Hi Peter thankyou for replying, I know little about him sadly, apart from his name is Kurt F Pusch, born 1891 we think, and he married my Grandmother Alice Maude Whittle at Christchurch Dorset in July 1913, the marriage certificate puts his age as 22 in 1913, and my dad was born February 1914, my dads name was Bertram William George Pusch, but he changed his surname to Mitchell later on, 

[knittinganddeath]

Who made the family tree on Ancestry that includes him? It says he was born 1888 in Leipzig, his father was the railway porter Paul Eugen Pusch, and he was married to Alice Maude Whittle.

Edited 29 December , 2021 by knittinganddeath

[Tim Mitchell]

3 minutes ago, knittinganddeath said:

Who made the family tree on Ancestry that includes him? It says he was born 1888 in Leipzig, his father was Paul Eugen Pusch, and he was married to Alice Maude Whittle -- but you say that you think he was born in 1891?

Hi, I made the Ancestry tree, on on what I know from the Marriage certificate and it says he was 22 at the Marriage, so I guess he was born 1891? 

[knittinganddeath]

Just now, Tim Mitchell said:

6 minutes ago, knittinganddeath said:

 

Hi, I made the Ancestry tree, on on what I know from the Marriage certificate and it says he was 22 at the Marriage, so I guess he was born 1891? 

Oh OK. I thought it might be a relative who had more information than you and that could have been something to follow up.

[Tim Mitchell]

5 minutes ago, knittinganddeath said:

Oh OK. I thought it might be a relative who had more information than you and that could have been something to follow up.

Hi at the moment I am guessing, and hopefully find things, if ever I asked as a child about my Grandfather the subject was always changed, but looking at the red cross info I think I may have found him, there is a Kurt Pusch as a civilian who was interned

[PRC]

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a Kurt Paul Otto Pusch, a German National born Leipzig, Germany (edit) Saxony recorded as a Waiter living and working at the Canford Cliff's Hotel, Ravine Road, Canford Cliff's, Bournemouth, Dorset. He was then aged 20.

Postcard from 1908

Image courtesy Alwyn Ladell on Flickr - restrictions on re-use apply. https://www.flickr.com/photos/alwyn_ladell/5531535899

The International Committee of the Red Cross does have a card for a German civilian, Karl Pusch, who was interned by the British. Unfortunately I'm not experienced enough to know where to look for helpful information based on the notes on the card to confirm it's the right man. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/4399867/1/1/

If you look at that webpage you will see there is a search box in which you can put in the reference numbers shown on the card, and that should take you to the related document. Unfortunately only one of them seems to work for me - D 243. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/4399867/952/243/

Thats a document entitled "List No. 243 German Prisoners of War Civilians". If you scroll to page 8, (243/8), you will see Karl listed. He is on a long list which started on page 6 of Germans who have been repatriated. I don't know if that means repatriated to Germany or returned to the UK from overseas. The report is dated by the ICRC as having been received on the 2nd June 1919.

Apparently his original internment was recorded on report 11 page 1. (The front page of List 243 says previous reports will be listed in column 8 and information given in those earlier reports will not included). Thats probably in a very long list of those interned at the outset of the war, but my knowldege is too limited in this area to know how to find it https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/4399867/952/11/29288

Sorry I can't be more helpful.
Peter

Edited 30 December , 2021 by PRC
Correct census details

[PRC]

Little bit more here and some links

Cheers,
Peter

[Tim Mitchell]

13 hours ago, PRC said:

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a Kurt Paul Otto Pusch, a German National born Leipzig, Germany (edit) Saxony recorded as a Waiter living and working at the Canford Cliff's Hotel, Ravine Road, Canford Cliff's, Bournemouth, Dorset. He was then aged 20.

Postcard from 1908

Image courtesy Alwyn Ladell on Flickr - restrictions on re-use apply. https://www.flickr.com/photos/alwyn_ladell/5531535899

The International Committee of the Red Cross does have a card for a German civilian, Karl Pusch, who was interned by the British. Unfortunately I'm not experienced enough to know where to look for helpful information based on the notes on the card to confirm it's the right man. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/4399867/1/1/

If you look at that webpage you will see there is a search box in which you can put in the reference numbers shown on the card, and that should take you to the related document. Unfortunately only one of them seems to work for me - D 243. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/4399867/952/243/

Thats a document entitled "List No. 243 German Prisoners of War Civilians". If you scroll to page 8, (243/8), you will see Karl listed. He is on a long list which started on page 6 of Germans who have been repatriated. I don't know if that means repatriated to Germany or returned to the UK from overseas. The report is dated by the ICRC as having been received on the 2nd June 1919.

Apparently his original internment was recorded on report 11 page 1. (The front page of List 243 says previous reports will be listed in column 8 and information given in those earlier reports will not included). Thats probably in a very long list of those interned at the outset of the war, but my knowldege is too limited in this area to know how to find it https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/4399867/952/11/29288

Sorry I can't be more helpful.
Peter

Hello Peter thank you so much for your help. yes he did work at that hotel but in the 1911 census, it looks like someone changed the name from Kurt F Pusch to Paul Otto Pusch? 

[PRC]

23 minutes ago, Tim Mitchell said:

Hello Peter thank you so much for your help. yes he did work at that hotel but in the 1911 census, it looks like someone changed the name from Kurt F Pusch to Paul Otto Pusch? 

The 1911 Census of England & Wales was the first UK census to be completed by a member of the household rather than by a census taker. In this case the Hotel Manager George James Watts has signed the declaration that the information given is believed to be true, although it looks liks several hands have had a go at completing the multi-page return.

Looking at the actual line for Kurt, what I'm seeing is an addition to insert the middle names Paul and Otto between first name Kurt and last name Pusch.

Image courtesy Genes Re-united.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 30 December , 2021 by PRC
Typo

[ss002d6252]

6 minutes ago, PRC said:

Looking at the actual line for Kurt, what I'm seeing is an addition to insert the middle names Paul and Otto between first name Kurt and last name Pusch.

I read it that way as well.

Craig

[Allan1892]

15 hours ago, PRC said:

If you look at that webpage you will see there is a search box in which you can put in the reference numbers shown on the card, and that should take you to the related document. Unfortunately only one of them seems to work for me - D 243. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/4399867/952/243/

The entry for Kurt shows 'Place of Internment' as ''Ax.P.'' --- this stand for Alexandra Palace. Interesting blog on the National Archives site, link below:-

Daily life in Alexandra Palace internment camp - The National Archives blog

[Tim Mitchell]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

The 1911 Census of England & Wales was the first UK census to be completed by a member of the household rather than by a census taker. In this case the Hotel Manager George James Watts has signed the declaration that the information given is believed to be true, although it looks liks several hands have had a go at completing the multi-page return.

Looking at the actual line for Kurt, what I'm seeing is an addition to insert the middle names Paul and Otto between first name Kurt and last name Pusch.

Image courtesy Genes Re-united.

Cheers,
Peter

Hi Peter thankyou, also I have seen a copy of his marriage to my Grandmother, and it says Kurt F Pusch, the F stands for Fritz

[ss002d6252]

55 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

The entry for Kurt shows 'Place of Internment' as ''Ax.P.'' --- this stand for Alexandra Palace. Interesting blog on the National Archives site, link below:-

Daily life in Alexandra Palace internment camp - The National Archives blog

Interesting read, thanks.

Craig

[PRC]

4 hours ago, Tim Mitchell said:

Hi Peter thankyou, also I have seen a copy of his marriage to my Grandmother, and it says Kurt F Pusch, the F stands for Fritz

Do you have any reason to believe it's not the same man? Information given at the marriage ceremony could essentially be what ever bride or groom said it was. By the time of their wedding I understand birth certificates were asked for, but if they could not be presented then the party who couldn't verify the details simply had to sign a declaration that the information given was true. His new wife may have known him as Kurt Fritz, it may have been a joke, or Kurt may have been reluctant about the marriage - I take it that Alice Maude Whittle was the 29 year old unmarried live in parlourmaid at a private dwelling in Bournemouth on the 1911 Census of England & Wales.

I'm not finding him under either name so far in the German records available via familysearch.

Cheers,
Peter

[Tim Mitchell]

31 minutes ago, PRC said:

Do you have any reason to believe it's not the same man? Information given at the marriage ceremony could essentially be what ever bride or groom said it was. By the time of their wedding I understand birth certificates were asked for, but if they could not be presented then the party who couldn't verify the details simply had to sign a declaration that the information given was true. His new wife may have known him as Kurt Fritz, it may have been a joke, or Kurt may have been reluctant about the marriage - I take it that Alice Maude Whittle was the 29 year old unmarried live in parlourmaid at a private dwelling in Bournemouth on the 1911 Census of England & Wales.

I'm not finding him under either name so far in the German records available via familysearch.

Cheers,
Peter

Hi peter, I do know that Alice Maude Whittle lived at 159 and 161 Capstone Road Bournemouth Hampshire, my dads Birth is stated as 161 Capstone Road Bournemouth Hampshire in 1914, Bournemouth is now in Dorset

[Tim Mitchell]

21 hours ago, PRC said:

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a Kurt Paul Otto Pusch, a German National born Leipzig, Germany (edit) Saxony recorded as a Waiter living and working at the Canford Cliff's Hotel, Ravine Road, Canford Cliff's, Bournemouth, Dorset. He was then aged 20.

Postcard from 1908

Image courtesy Alwyn Ladell on Flickr - restrictions on re-use apply. https://www.flickr.com/photos/alwyn_ladell/5531535899

The International Committee of the Red Cross does have a card for a German civilian, Karl Pusch, who was interned by the British. Unfortunately I'm not experienced enough to know where to look for helpful information based on the notes on the card to confirm it's the right man. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/4399867/1/1/

If you look at that webpage you will see there is a search box in which you can put in the reference numbers shown on the card, and that should take you to the related document. Unfortunately only one of them seems to work for me - D 243. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/4399867/952/243/

Thats a document entitled "List No. 243 German Prisoners of War Civilians". If you scroll to page 8, (243/8), you will see Karl listed. He is on a long list which started on page 6 of Germans who have been repatriated. I don't know if that means repatriated to Germany or returned to the UK from overseas. The report is dated by the ICRC as having been received on the 2nd June 1919.

Apparently his original internment was recorded on report 11 page 1. (The front page of List 243 says previous reports will be listed in column 8 and information given in those earlier reports will not included). Thats probably in a very long list of those interned at the outset of the war, but my knowldege is too limited in this area to know how to find it https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/4399867/952/11/29288

Sorry I can't be more helpful.
Peter

 

[Tim Mitchell]

1 minute ago, Tim Mitchell said:

 

The Canford Cliffs Hotel got bombed in the 2nd world war and after got demolished, and replaced with a block of flats