42nd Battalion, MGC, only two survivors

[ransomhades]

Hello all,

 

I have an interesting newspaper clipping from within the family about our great grandfather who belonged to the aforementioned unit. I am hoping someone is able to translate the draft card in the hopes of determining what the newspaper clipping says about him being only one of two survivors of his unit.

 

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

[FROGSMILE]

The battalion has been discussed before at this thread: 

@harrisonand @andy17191might perhaps be able to contribute concerning your inquiry.  Also perhaps @david murdoch.

Edited 29 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

The 42nd Battalion did not come into existance until February 1918, so if the Ypres being referred to was 3rd Ypres, aka Passchendaele, then that took place in 1917. 

However that Battalion was created as part of an Army wide reorganisation in which Machine Gun Company's, (numbered for the Brigade they were attached to), were amalgamated into a Machine Gun Battalion, numbered for the Division they were attached to.

His service in Egypt, the Dardenelles, Palestine and France certainly sounds like he could have been serving with one of the units of the 42nd (East Lancashire) Division - see this webpage on our parent website https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/42nd-east-lancashire-division/

The fact that that the first unit shown on the Medal Index Card you have attached is the 1/2nd East Lancs Brigade, Royal Field Artillery, also points to an East Lancashire connection.

So possibly he was serving with one of the Companys that were swallowed up into the 42nd Battalion - those would be the 125th, 126th, 127th and 268th Machine Gun Companys.

Hopefully one of the Machine Gun Corps experts will be along shortly to tell you I'm either talking utter tosh, or come up with something to prove or disprove the core of this piece of journalism.

Cheers,
Peter

[ransomhades]

Thank you gentlemen for your swift replies

[WhiteStarLine]

Welcome to the forum - you have also posted the same question to an identical thread - this gets a little confusing for responders as they're not sure which request to reply to.

 

[Keith Brannen]

The only time the 42nd Division was near Ypres was in September 1917, where their position was near Frezenberg. 

Checking the War Diary of the 42nd Division Headquarters Adjutant and Quarter-Master General, shows that for the month of September the 125th  M.G.C. had 1 Officer wounded, 8 OR killed, 28 OR wounded, 1 OR missing, and 2 OR gassed. The 126th M.G.C. had 1 OR wounded. The 127th M.G.C. had 3 OR killed, 4 OR wounded, 1 OR missing, and 4 OR gassed.

On September 1st the strength of the 125th M.G.C was 9 Officers and 169 OR, the 126th M.G.C. had 10 Officers and 174 OR, and the 127th M.G.C. had 12 Officers and 179 OR.

Assuming that your great-grandfather was in the 125th M.G.C. at the time, then I would assume that what was meant was the his section, or whatever small units they used, had nearly been wiped out, rather than the company or battalion. 

Edited 29 December , 2021 by Keith Brannen

[Michelle Young]

What you have called his draft card is in fact a medal index card.

See here for help to interpret.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/how-to-interpret-a-campaign-medal-index-card/

 

[kenf48]

His MGC number indicates he was transferred to the MGC between the 17th and 22nd March 1918. 

This may have been in the field, to bring the numbers in the Battalion up to strength following the reorganisation referred to above; or on posting to the MG Corps Training Centre at Grantham.  The first draft of replacements noted in the war diary was 40 other ranks on the 15th May 1918, which would be about right for deployment from Grantham as it took six weeks to train a Machine Gunner.

The movements of his original unit (the 1/2 East Lancs RFA) are also detailed on the LLT ,to be read with the Divisional History cited above

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-royal-artillery-in-the-first-world-war/batteries-and-brigades-of-the-royal-field-artillery/ccx-ccxi-ccxii-and-ccxiii-howitzer-brigades-42nd-divisional-artillery/

You will see this unit remained in Egypt and did not go to the Dardanelles (although individual soldiers from the 1/2 may have done as reinforcement/replacements for the 1/1 who did go to Gallipoli).  As these were Territorial Force units there was initially a local connection but as the clipping on the above page shows a reserve or 2nd line unit was raised after the 1st line had gone overseas.

 

 

[PRC]

An alternative could be that it was the 42nd Battalion and that Ypres was a bit of journalistic licence – which for me would switch attention to the German Spring Offensives of 1918 when the 42nd Division was on the Somme.

But a check of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission database doesn’t give any hints of a catastrophic loss.

21st March – 31st March 1918: 13 fatalities, with 7 on the 27th, all with no known grave.
1st April – 30th April 1918: 10 fatalities, with 3 on the 5th with no known grave and 3 on the 6th, with one in the UK, one no known grave, and one in the front line cemetery at Bienvillers.
1st May – 31st May 1918: 2 fatalities – one as a prisoner of war who died at Berlin on the 17th May 1918. There is nothing in his surviving Red Cross records to indicate when he was taken prisoner.

Of course a unit could be effectively wiped out by men being wounded or taken prisoner.

The War Diary for the 42nd Battalion, MGC, can currently be downloaded for free from the UK National Archive. You do need to sign in with your account, but if you don’t have one, even that can be set up as part of placing your first order. Just click on “sign in” and follow the instructions – no financial details are required.

The War Diary of the 42nd Battalion can be found in the National Archive catalogue here :- https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354430

As a senior NCO there is a slightly higher chance that he will get mentioned by name, (but I wouldn’t count on it

It’s more to give you a feel for where they were and what they were up to, and when any significant losses were incurred.

BTW – have you been able to spot him in the group photograph on the other thread?

Cheers,
Peter

[Steven Broomfield]

Not unknown for an Old Soldier to gild the lily, aided by a little journalistic licence.