1915 Lee-Enfield

[spdeplayer2]

I just inherited a 1915 Lee-Enfield from my father that passed and trying to gather some info on it. So far i gather that it is a MKIII( no *), it is sporterized, the barrel is original , according to the markings. The clip is an early model.  What I'm trying to understand, is the marking on the barrel has a "22" stamped on it, which i was told was from a converted 303 to a 22. but the chamber size suggest otherwise. also, in all my research, I have not found any rifles with the word "Enfield" stamped on it, like mine has. No picture of it, but behind the rear sight on the barrel it does have the stamped "HVSC" on it. Also I would appreciate any advice as how to clean up the wood and the medal. thank you

[JMB1943]

Spdeplayer2,

Welcome to the forum.

4th Gordon’s is the Enfield rifle here, and may be already typing his reply.

In terms of cleanup/restoration, first do no harm!

No sanding of the woodwork and only bronze wool ( or 0000 grade steel wool) with light oil on the metal work.

Regards,

JMB

edit: Don’t touch the metalwork until others have weighed in!!!

Edited 28 December , 2021 by JMB1943
add info

[shippingsteel]

Looks like a standard SMLE that has been "sportered" to make a great hunting rifle. The Enfield marking is fine just shows it was made at RSAF Enfield in England. The barrel looks original based on the serial numbers so NO conversion too .22 perhaps just a random number applied during manufacture. The experts will know more ...

Cheers, SS 

[4thGordons]

As noted above a standard MkIII that has had the furniture cut down and partially removed, and had a foresight ramp added - to make a hunting rifle. - very common. Some were done commercially, many more done in private workshops and garages during a time when SMLEs were cheap and plentiful. I have a number of them. Unfortunately while this produces a practical and effective hunting rifle - it largely destroys any collectiblity value.  A decade ago it would have been relatively easy and cheap to restore the rifle to its original configuration but these days it is an expensive proposition and you can often purchase a complete original rifle for what you might spend in restoration. (That said there are now decent reproduction furniture sets on the market but even those will cost you the best part of $400 and then you will need various other components and the knowledge on how to stock-up the rifle correctly which is rather complex on Enfields)

The serial number is actually A6630 (with the A prefix) you should also find it stamped on the rear of the bolt handle and the underside of the rear sight.  It would also have been stamped on the foresight protector (removed) and the front of the forend (also removed)

The markings all appear fairly standard (you don't show it but I assume there is a '16 date on the opposite side of the barrel knox form.

HVSC - High Velocity Small Cone (refers to the fact that the rifle is set up and sighted for the MkVII cartridge)

I am not sure what the 22 represents. Clearly it is not the calibre (sometimes the original barrels were sleeved (parkerrifled) to reduce the calibre but that is not the case here as it would be apparent)

I had a look at a couple of my rifles and I don't see anything like it in that location.

One possibility is that is is part of a very lightly stamped British civilian proof mark (showing it had been through the gun trade in the UK -this  includes 2.22" (the length of the .303 cartridge)  however this is quite a large stamp also including tons per inch etc and is usually quite clear -but usually marked in this location. The photo is a little blurred however there does seem to be some stamping over the serial number of the barrel and that might be the remains of the British Civilian proof and there does appear to be a light (upside down!) ENGLAND stamp on the receiver which is an import stamp indicating country of origin (probably means the rifle came into the US before 1968 when stamps showing importer and calibre began to be required). So not really sure as to the meaning of 22 here.

As regards cleaning - the rifle looks rather dusty/dirty so I would blow it off with an air line to remove all the loose dust/dirt and then give it a wipe over with a lint free rag with a good quality machine oil/gun oil.  Not much else really needs doing unless there is active rust and I don't see that here. The bore should be cleaned as you would any rifle (patches/brushes etc) This is best done from the breech end so you will need to remove the bolt (position the bolt head over the small sprung button on the receiver rail and then rotate upwards -- this can be stiff (and sometimes even impossible!) if dirt and debris has built up around and behind this spring. The wood looks pretty good to me - the finish was originally Linseed Oil and I would give it a wipe down with a damp rag (if it is really dirty --and it doesn't look like it to me -- you could use some small amounts of cleaning solvent) and then give it a coat or two of Boiled Linseed Oil.

Chris

 

Edited 29 December , 2021 by 4thGordons
adding HVSC info

[spdeplayer2]

Thank you for your information, that's the most I've been able to get so far. and yes , you are correct, there is a "16" stamped on the other side. Also I. believe what you said about the "22" mark as , after closer examination, it appears to be a lighter stamp than the rest, and it appears to actually say 22', and underneath it appears to have a stamp that says 18? tons, cannot make out last number or symbol. Do you believe it to be a true 1915? and also in the condition that you have described, what would the approximate  value now? 

[4thGordons]

If it says 18 Tons (then there is a square) as in Tons per Square Inch -- it is definitely the British Civilian proof mark. glad we could clarify that.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by a "true 1915" - but yes I believe it is a ShtLE made at RSAF Enfield in 1915/16 (the presence of '16 on the barrel and '15 on the receiver might suggest it was made on the cusp. Check the stamp on the wrist to be sure it is 1915 not 16 (I cannot be definite from the photograph)

The price you could get for it is, unfortunately from your point of view if you are looking to sell it, significantly diminished by the alterations. It is going to depend to some extent on your local market (where you are located) as I noted above this is really going to be for someone who wants to use it - not a historical collector. Because of this the condition of the bore is also going to matter (and if the bolt serial number matches). RSAF Enfield made @ 270,000+ rifles in 1915 an more than 418,000+ in 1916 so it is not going to have any rarity value!

If you go to a site like Gunbroker.com and search "Enfield Sporter" you will see a range of prices. (Note many of these are unrealistically high and the rifles will not sell) so you will need to follow some for a while and see what they sell for - prices have been creeping up slightly recently.

Chris

 

[spdeplayer2]

thank you

 

[Sarchet]

Could the .22 marking be from a conversion to the 1918 Pattern Sht .22? That would have left the chamber .303 sized for the conveyor cartridge and the outside of the original barrel.

[4thGordons]

3 hours ago, Sarchet said:

Could the .22 marking be from a conversion to the 1918 Pattern Sht .22? That would have left the chamber .303 sized for the conveyor cartridge and the outside of the original barrel.

not with "18 tons per" under it (see above).

Also, it would be stamped with Parkerrifling prominently on the barrel and would have had .22 Pattern '18 stamped under the III on the wrist.

Chris

[reese williams]

Also, I believe that all the .22 conversions used a complete barrel, i.e. were chambered in .22. I don't think any used a .303 sized carrier. I await Chris' gentle correction if my memory has failed me.

[4thGordons]

54 minutes ago, reese williams said:

Also, I believe that all the .22 conversions used a complete barrel, i.e. were chambered in .22. I don't think any used a .303 sized carrier. I await Chris' gentle correction if my memory has failed me.

Actually I think the .22 RF Rifle Pattern 1918 pattern did use a "conveyor" (basically a .303 shaped block of steel into which the .22 round was placed) in this respect it was I think unique amongst the various .22 trainer conversions.

Having said that I have never actually seen a .22 RF Rifle Pattern 1918 or a conveyor in the flesh!

Chris

[Sarchet]

On 29/12/2021 at 12:56, 4thGordons said:

not with "18 tons per" under it (see above).

Also, it would be stamped with Parkerrifling prominently on the barrel and would have had .22 Pattern '18 stamped under the III on the wrist.

Chris

Good point, I had not considered that.

 

I haven't seen one either - I don't think all that many were made and apparently they were withdrawn from service in the 1920s. The steel conveyors had to have been hard on extractors. I am working on speccing out the chamber reamers and conveyors for an imitation build, but with brass rims on the conveyors to save some wear on the rifle.

[t.ryan]

As the topic has mentioned Parkerrifling, these two bits from my old 1936 Parker Hale catalogue may be of interest.

Cheers,

TR

[t.ryan]

About the rifle at the start of this post, has anyone actually seen or had the barrel checked out to see that it is still .303 and not had .22 parkerrifling done to its original barrel.

From what I can see from the drawings above, if a barrel has had .22 Parkerrifling and the chamber was as issued .303 and able to take the steel conveyor to accept the .22 cartridge then someone not familiar with firearms could easily chamber a .303 round in the chamber and discharge it with a disastrous ending.

In this case the chamber size would be the least of worry's, its the size of the bore at the muzzle end which could make all the difference.

Regards,

TR

[4thGordons]

3 hours ago, t.ryan said:

About the rifle at the start of this post, has anyone actually seen or had the barrel checked out to see that it is still .303 and not had .22 parkerrifling done to its original barrel.

From what I can see from the drawings above, if a barrel has had .22 Parkerrifling and the chamber was as issued .303 and able to take the steel conveyor to accept the .22 cartridge then someone not familiar with firearms could easily chamber a .303 round in the chamber and discharge it with a disastrous ending.

In this case the chamber size would be the least of worry's, its the size of the bore at the muzzle end which could make all the difference.

Regards,

TR

I am pretty sure the 22 mark is part of the 2.22 stamp (length of the .303 cartridge and part of a UK civilian proof as mentioned in my first post above) however it would certainly be wise for the OP to check the diameter of the bore at the  muzzle!

Every Parkerrifled .22 ShtLE I have seen (I only have 1 but have seen several more) have prominent PARKER HALE stamps on the knox form and have been restamped with .22 (and on later ones No2 MkIV) on the wrist. 

I have never actually seen a .22 Enfield in the flesh which has the conveyancing system intact (ie a .303 chamber and a .22 bore) so I suspect they are very uncommon.

However -- with that all said -- it would be a really easy check to see the diameter of the bore and would at least end the speculation amongst those of us who don't have the rifle in hand!

 

Chris

[ENFIELDSTUFF]

I note that the magazine is a Second Variation, designed for use with the Mk VI (round nose) projectile.  The magazine on your rifle was designed for the Mk I* and early Mk III rifles, which is not the rifle it's on.   

First and Second Variation magazine cases are scarce, as most were converted to Third Variation.  It might be the most valuable part of your rifle. <smile>

Enfield-Stuff