STRONGESS, JOHN HENRY Rank: Private Machine Gun Corps

[padrenick]

Last one of the day. I have his memorial plaque anyone seen his medals for sale recently? Any further information gratefully received 

STRONGESS, JOHN HENRY

Rank: Private

Service No: 142529

Date of Death: 15/04/1918 Age: 19

Regiment/Service: Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) 62nd Bn.

Grave Reference III. B. 31.

Cemetery AUBIGNY COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION

Additional Information:

Son of John and Monica Strongess, of 44, Suffield St., Middlesbrough, Yorks.

Born in Canning Town in London, John Henry Strongess enlisted in Middlesbrough into the West Yorkshire  Regiment before moving to the 62nd battalion of the Machine Gun Corps. Wounded in action, Private Strongess died of his injuries aged 19 on April 15th 1918 and today lies in Aubigny Communal Cemetery Extension situated eight miles north west of Arras.

Edited 27 December , 2021 by padrenick

[charlie962]

There's one of those torn bits of Casualty Sheet indexed by FindmyPast that is a progress report. I think it suggests he was D Company of 62nd Bn MGC.

John Henry was 19 and his father John was 22 years older (1911 Census for Frederick St, Stockton). So I presume this is JH's father being reported as an Alien, whilst his son was to go off and die for Britain?

courtesy Findmypast 1916

Edited 27 December , 2021 by charlie962
spelink

[charlie962]

His West Yorks service no 52338, was issued c 10th Oct 1917 but he would have been in a Training Battalion before this. It is also quite possible that this date of October 1917 was when he was first posted overseas and actually joining West Yorks in France via a Base Depot.

There are several near numbered men of similar age with surviving service records and you should look through them for further clues. (eg Straker 52334) You will probably be able to establish the West Yorks Bn in which he served.

 

His MGC number was an issue in France c 23/3/18 ie just after the start of the German Spring Offensive.( eg record of White 142533)

 

charlie

 

 

Edited 27 December , 2021 by charlie962

[padrenick]

Charlie 962 what an extraordinary find. I wonder what his Russian name was? Or their religious affiliation 

[charlie962]

Father, John and another son Mathew emigrated to Cleveland Ohio in 1920- or at least tried to. He said his origin was Lithuanian. They seem to have left Monica behind? Anyway here is a start on Ancestry shipping records.

I'm not sure if it says john was Deported but Matthew Admitted. More work to do.

I think Matthew came back in 1923 and went to Scotland. Monica died in Scotland- Glasgow 1932.

Have a look at the family's 1911 Census here

Edited 27 December , 2021 by charlie962

[charlie962]

40 minutes ago, padrenick said:

Or their religious affiliation 

I suspect Catholic- One of the brothers of John Henry, Peter, was definately thus.

In fact various of John and Monica's children use the Catholic church in Middlesboro and Glasgow.

Edited 27 December , 2021 by charlie962

[PRC]

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales the family were recorded at 10, Frederick Street, Stockton-on-Tees, County Durham.

Parents John, (35, Metal carrier) and Monica, (33), both give their birthplace as Lithuania. They have been married 15 years and have had 7 children, of which 6 were then still alive.

The oldest of the six is the 13 year old John Strongess, born Silvertown, London.

However the next oldest, Annie, aged 11, is shown as born Lithuania - so Monica at least must have gone back.

The next three - Matthew, (7), Peter, (5) and Magdelen, (2) are all show as born Bellshill, Lanarkshire.

Finally there is the 2 month old Anthony, born Stockton, so the family could only have moved back south of the border in the last couple of years.

When the birth of Anthony Strongness (Edit 28/12) Strongess was registered with the civil authorities in the Stockton District in Q1 of 1911 his mothers' maiden name was recorded as GENCEWICZ.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 28 December , 2021 by PRC
1)Typo 2)28/12/21 correct surname spelling

[clk]

Hi,

Again from FMP, I can't quite make out what it says after 62/DIV though.

Image sourced from Findmypast

Regards
Chris

[charlie962]

John (as in John Henry) has a school admission giving his birth date as 23/8/1898.

His brother Matthew at the same school has birth date 25/5/1903

The school is Stockton St. Mary's R.C. Primary (Boys)- so that answers the affiliation question for sure.

charlie

2 minutes ago, clk said:

t what it says after 62/DIV though.

MG BTN D

[clk]

Thanks c962 ,

So now Nick has pretty much a precise time, place and cause of his death.

Regards
Chris

[charlie962]

Just now, clk said:

a precise time, place and cause of his death

That was a good find.

Nick, I suggest all hits on search engines for Strongess will be the same family. it is an extremely uncommon name, it seems.

[charlie962]

14 minutes ago, PRC said:

When the birth of Anthony Strongness was registered with the civil authorities in the Stockton District in Q1 of 1911 his mothers' maiden name was recorded as GENCEWICZ.

this becomes 'Gainsavage' by the time Monica dies! So perhaps Strongess is phoenetic for a Lithuanian surname?

courtesy Ancestry:

[PRC]

Just now, charlie962 said:

this becomes 'Gainsavage' by the time Monica dies! So perhaps Strongess is phoenetic for a Lithuanian surname?

courtesy Ancestry:

And husband ended up back in Scotland, (or at least the UK), after being deported.

I struggled to find a birth record for our soldier John Henry, but bearing in mind how names can get anglicized, I widened the wild card search and came up with a John Henry Strongdzis, mothers maiden name "Gensavitz", which was registered with the civil authorities in the West Ham District in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1898.

Can't guarantee it's the right birth records. Although the West Ham civil registration district did include the area known as Silver Town, (birthplace 1911 Census), as it was in the hinterland of the London Docks it had a vast immigrant community. But allowing up to 42 days after the birth on the 23rd August 1898 it would be possible that the birth of John Henry could be registered in Q4. And Gensavitz to Gainsavage doesn't seem that implausible

Cheers,
Peter

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, PRC said:

Can't guarantee it's the right birth records.

Well found. I think you can issue guarantee.

Note JH's father John came to Britain "when he was a baby" so there should be an earlier generation called Strangeweis or something similar.

Charlie

[padrenick]

Thank you all so much.  For years he has been a  name on a memorial plaque but now I have a good picture of him.  I bought the plaque in the 80s in Oxford of all places.  I am indebted to all of  you well researched 

[ss002d6252]

The soldiers' effects shows

The £4 10s net was £6 10s gross.

This tells us he had 15 months of service at the time of his death - which means he enlisted in the month from 16 January 1917.

Craig

[ss002d6252]

The parents were both born in Lithuania.

1911 census

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=NBE283&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=2352&gsfn=monica&gsln=strongess&cp=0&new=1&rank=1&uidh=784&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=0&h=35234173&recoff=&ml_rpos=1&queryId=16fc0142f92e84196a1ca5dad4c4cf74


Craig

[ss002d6252]

The youngest Son, Anthony was born in Stockton. The nearest match on the register that I can see is this.




Matthew was however registered as Strongess


Craig

[ss002d6252]

Magdalena was registered as Strongess as well.


Craig

[charlie962]

37 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

enlisted in the month from 16 January 1917.

That reinforces the probability of him starting with one of the Training bns then going overseas Oct 1917 to join West Yorks, as I suggested earlier. Near numbers follow similar path.

The war diary for 62 BN MGC is on discovery and free to download. It may detail the doings of D company?

Charlie

[charlie962]

Are there not Alien registration records somewhere? If father John was still an Alien in 1916 then this must have been on a register somewhere. I recall asking similar question four years or so ago for a deceased soldier's alien father who was a waiter in a London club but I don't recall any progress.

[PRC]

My very limited understanding, and very happy to be corrected, was that as a citizen of an allied nation he was required to register with his government via an embassy \ consulate, with a view to potential military service. There may have been almost a no poaching policy in place - seem to remember a thread a few months back on how few Italians of military age were actually recalled to their home country for service. Thus the process was slightly different than if he had been a citizen of a neutral country or even a combatant nation. After Russian signed a separate peace treaty then the UK treated Russian nationals as fair game, and went ahead with their conscription.

What might be of interest is if either father John or mother Monica applied for naturalization as that should in theory show birth name and places as well as names used in the UK.

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

The youngest Son, Anthony was born in Stockton. The nearest match on the register that I can see is this.



 

Anthony was two months old - birth recorded Q1 1911 with mothers' maiden name Gencewicz

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

Magdalena was registered as Strongess as well.

 

FMP had a Catholic Parish Baptismal record for her as well under that name - was going to add that earlier but seemed liked there was enough confirmation of the families Roman Catholic faith already

11 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Note JH's father John came to Britain "when he was a baby" so there should be an earlier generation called Strangeweis or something similar.

Problem is the birth of the oldest daughter, Annie aged 11 at the time of the 1911 Census, being shown as occurring in Lithuania and with subsequent children born in Lanarkshire, then at the time of the 1901 Census the family may either have been outside the country or in Scotland.

Which potentially only leaves the 1881 and 1891 Census of England & Wales to look for John senior, but that again assumes the family ties to Scotland didn't start with this earlier period of his life.

As for his wife Monica, she too may have come to the UK earlier, or John may have returned to the old country to marry her. And as to what their non-anglicized first names would have been is anyones guess - from that perspective the birth certificate for John Henry Strongdzis from 1898 might be helpful.

Fascinating stuff,

Peter

[Matlock1418]

From Pension Ledger Index Cards at WFA/Fold3

Monica STRONGESS, [b.1877, Mother] was awarded a dependant's pension of 15/- pw for life from 29-10-18 under Article 21(1a) - address given as 44 Suffield St, Middlesbrough

M

[charlie962]

I've had a quick look at the War Diary and the most probable date of Strongess's wounding that led to his death is this entry:

12/4/18  2ndLt R J Dangerfield and 5 ORs of 'D' Company wounded

RJ Dangerfield is Richard James Dangerfield, (formerly 349 and 104397, 28th London Regt)

[david murdoch]

Going by the Scottish death records  more recent  ones gives mother's (maiden) name. Certainly still family in the area. Being Lithuanian ties in with them being amongst large numbers who kame to work in the pits, and what would take then to Bellshill. John Strongess occupation "Fireman" was down a coalmine - not putting out fires. There are a few hits for the family name in the local Bellshill and Motherwell newspapers, several of which mention them being "Lithuanian".

 

STRONGESS

PETER

75

GENCEIVICZ

1981

566/ 601

Bellshill

 

STRONGESS

ANGELINA

83

PLOTIS

1989

675/ 31

Prestwick

 

STRONGESS

MONICA

88

STANKUNUTE

1999

566/ 182

Bellshill

STRONGESS

MONICA

76

STINCKAS

2017

566/ 533

Bellshill