Why no medals for Henry Rowles

[stuart rowles]

Henry Rowles served with the 1st (City of London) Battalion TF (Royal Fusiliers)

His Medal Index Card is attached which tells us hew was absent through illness on 5the October 1917.

The Medal Rolls also tell us that no medals were issued because of illness although he probably served in France be it only for a short time.

There are no Service Papers unfortunately.

Can anyone work out why this should be or have I missed something.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

I can't answer unfortunately, but just to add that his medal roll entry is typed in red, whereas everyone else is in black.
 

Theatres of War in which served                                                                                                      Remarks
1(a)  21-1-17  -  17-5-17    No medals                       Ill. Absent 5-10-17

[TEW]

Mystery for sure, four months service abroad showing.

There's a ? Next to the ILL annotation.

The medal roll annotation doesn't look like ILL, looks more like I11. Although the lower case L and a 1 look very similar on their typewriter. It's been written as ILL (uppercase) when added to MIC when the roll has an uppercase I followed by either 11 or lowercase ll.

Not an accurate way of reproducing this via a phone keyboard, don't have the correct typeface.

Could 'I11 Absent' means something akin to deserting?

Or if it is ILL perhaps he disembarked and was admitted to hospital although not sure that affects his entitlement.

TEW

 

 

[TEW]

There's another man with the same annotation on the next page of the roll.

If you go to ancestry page 204/353 of the roll there is an 'index sheet for the relevant roll.

There is a heading for 'NO MEDALS' which is blank.

Rowles & Donovan are lists 203 & 204 which are marked down as HO or Held Over medals.

Ahh!!

Page 222 has another HO man - Illegally absent.

TEW

[TEW]

I've looked through other examples of 'Ill. Absent' within the same roll.

I think they lost their service and a new period of service commences with the date on the MIC, in this case 5/10/17.

Rowles lost his service abroad period and was not entitled to medals. I presume he only served in the UK from 5/10/17.

Other men in the same boat had their service removed but their new service included time in France and their medals were reinstated.

Still not sure as to why Rowles and others are listed under 'Medals Held Over' rather than 'No Medals' when the entry is annotated No Medals.

Also wondering how Illegally Absent is different to Deserted.

TEW

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, TEW said:

Also wondering how Illegally Absent is different to Deserted.

From what I make of the Manual of Military Law it's not any different. To have deserted you have to have absented yourself without permission (e.g. illegally), so it's just another way of writing it down.

Craig

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, TEW said:

There's a ? Next to the ILL annotation.

I can't see that...

EDIT: Ah, on the Medal Index Card...

This is the  Roll Remarks column:

Edited 23 December , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[PhilB]

I think it refers to the handwritten Medal Card in the first photo, Dai.

Maybe “illegally absent” implies he meant to come back  while “deserted” means he didn’t.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Yes, thanks Phil, I just twigged what it meant.

All a bit strange when we have seen many examples of cards endorsed 'Medals Forfeited' in cases of desertion, but later seemingly restored unconditionally.

[ss002d6252]

19 minutes ago, PhilB said:

 

Maybe “illegally absent” implies he meant to come back  while “deserted” means he didn’t.

I don't think AWOL would result in loss of medal entitlement, whereas desertion did- the intent to return was the difference between AWOL and desertion.

Craig

[tullybrone]

38 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

I don't think AWOL would result in loss of medal entitlement, whereas desertion did- the intent to return was the difference between AWOL and desertion.

Craig

I also understand that if a man absented himself whilst under orders to go on an overseas draft - in peacetime or wartime and whether permanent or temporary absence was intended - it was also considered to be desertion.

 

Steve

[johnboy]

A search of police gazzette might help?

[TEW]

Where you normally see - 'Deserted, Medals Forfeited',  I understood this was overturned post-war? Did these automatically lose their service period and could only receive medals if they had later service abroad?

There must be a difference in the annotations - 'Medals Forfeited' and those who lost their entitlement period and have 'NO Medals'.

Unless the different terms are used by different infantry records offices?

TEW

[ss002d6252]

4 minutes ago, TEW said:

Where you normally see - 'Deserted, Medals Forfeited',  I understood this was overturned post-war? Did these automatically lose their service period and could only receive medals if they had later service abroad?

There must be a difference in the annotations - 'Medals Forfeited' and those who lost their entitlement period and have 'NO Medals'.

Unless the different terms are used by different infantry records offices?

TEW

I think it's different terms used by different offices.

There are a lot of forfeit medals that were never apparently restored. I was under the impression that they had to apply and then ask for them to be issued before they would be. I don't think we've ever fully got to the bottom of it.

Craig

[ss002d6252]

It appears the answer probably lies in an August 1920 Army Order.

Craig

[TEW]

Browsing through WO329/1903 IE. the roll for Rowles picks up quite a few Illegally Absent men with no medals.

Hopefully ~40% will have service  records which would tell us more.

I didn't get a hit for Rowles on the Courts Martial Fold3 index.

Now revising what I said earlier about the OP's 5/10/17 date regarding the illegal absence.

These medal rolls very helpfully give start and end dates for periods of service, end dates could be sickness or wounds and evacuated to UK or sometimes a change of theatre with new start and end dates.

I now think the 5/10/17 date is the start of the period of illegal absence which in Rowles' case would be in the UK.

There are other examples where a man's service end date equates to the illegal absence date. Perhaps this was in the field?

Not seen any desertions or forfeits mentioned in this roll.

It's a project for someone!

TEW

 

[stuart rowles]

Thanks everyone fo clarifying the situation a bit.

With no serviced papers there will always be bit of a mystery.

My special thanks to TEW and ss002d6252 for the newspaper article.

[charlie962]

Interesting discussion.thanks

[henryww1]

Looking at the medal card - I am not sure that he served in a theatre of war as none mentioned at the bottom of the card ?

1(a) 21.1.1917 to 17.05.1917 No Medals

If we knew when he joined, we would be able to find out how much service he actually  !

Sorry I cant help any further. 

[TEW]

From what I recall the medal roll has those details - 1(a) 21.1.1917 to 17.05.1917 No Medals.

1a is the theatre of war he served in and the dates are dates of service within that theatre of war.

Absence of a date of entry on a MIC simply means it was after 1/1/1916 when it served no purpose to add it.

The good clerks at the infantry record office went over and above their duty by adding start & end dates to periods of service. 

TEW

[ss002d6252]

1 hour ago, henryww1 said:

Looking at the medal card - I am not sure that he served in a theatre of war as none mentioned at the bottom of the card ?

1(a) 21.1.1917 to 17.05.1917 No Medals

If we knew when he joined, we would be able to find out how much service he actually  !

Sorry I cant help any further. 

I would say 21 January was the start of his active service.

For comparison, 5759/202627 attested 19 Nov 1915 and was mobilised 27 Jan 1916.

Craig