Pte G.Cheeseman KLR casualty - help to identify him please

[davidbohl]

Pte George Cheeseman #24490 King's Liverpool CWGC

This chaps available info is very conflicting, any help to identify him will be most grateful.

 

Name:	George Cheeseman
Birth Place:	Bromley, Kent
Residence:	Liverpool
Death Date:	30 Jan 1916
Death Place:	France and Flanders
Enlistment Place:	Liverpool
Rank:	Private
Regiment:	The King's (Liverpool) Regiment
Battalion:	17th Battalion
Regimental Number:	24990
Type of Casualty:	Died of wounds

 

Official information has been received of the death, from wounds, of Private G.M. Cheesman, 17th Battalion K.L.R. (the 1st "Pals").  He was twenty-five years of age, and resided with his widowed mother at 31, Plan St, Everton, Liverpool.  He was drafted to France on November 4, 1915.

 

From the BNA

Edited 18 December , 2021 by davidbohl

[Chesterboy]

What’s the conflicting points as it’s seems it the same man.  
 

 

[davidbohl]

His age is 27 on cwgc with name Cheeseman, no middle initial, 25 in newspaper Cheesman middle initial M.

Can't find any birth records in Bromley, or marriage records for John and Ada, or census records for him.

 

[Chesterboy]

Pension records for George Cheeseman

[Mark1959]

Electoral Registers for neither Plan St or Arundel Avenue are helpful. Appear to be occupied by other people at appropriate time. 

Edited 18 December , 2021 by Mark1959

[dink999]

His “other” ledger entry gives a clue to his mother’s age (52) which links in to the details on his card with the file becoming “dead” in Oct 1931 and an Ada M Cheeseman’s death being recorded in the Sept qtr of 1931 aged 64 in West Derby

Even with this info I still cannot find any census details for the family

Dave

[davidbohl]

Thanks guys, I thought it was just me.

The death record 1931 is for Ada Mace Cheeseman aged 64 which puts her about b.1867

 

 

 

Edited 18 December , 2021 by davidbohl

[davidbohl]

A bit closer ?

Name	Ada Cheeseman
Event Date	1867
Event Place	Bromley, Kent, England

 

I suspect the reason she was moving about so much was she was a bit of a felon ?

From Anc

 

[corisande]

52 minutes ago, davidbohl said:

A bit closer ?

Yes, you are closer now. This seems solvable, but it will be difficult

Trouble is getting her from there. That is certainly her in the Police Record. However I cannot get the trail in the press

Nor is she in 1911 census

----------------

So that could be her in BMD, in which case George was illegitimate

so possibly

Ada Cheeseman, born Bromley, Kent  1867

or

there is a marriage of Ada Florence Sells to a John Cheeseman in Kent in 1889

or

....

[corisande]

Ok , this newspaper article  in FmP gives

and his Pension Card ties Ada to George

[davidbohl]

Not a nice story to uncover is it?

46 minutes ago, corisande said:

So that could be her in BMD, in which case George was illegitimate

There is a marriage in 1895, she is the daughter of Frederick and Emmeline Cheeseman

 

[corisande]

22 minutes ago, davidbohl said:

There is a marriage in 1895, she is the daughter of Frederick and Emmeline Cheeseman

I don't think that is her

Either she would be and unmarried Ada in 1926, or a married one (in which case she was not born Cheeseman)

She is unlikely to have married and then reverted to her maiden name

[davidbohl]

Any more thoughts on her middle name ?, at least we know she was C of E.

Am I correct in saying she had to provide her marriage cert or George's birth cert to receive the pension ?

From Anc

 

Name:	Ada Mare Chesseman
Age:	64
Record Type:	Burial
Birth Date:	abt 1867
Death Date:	abt 1931
Burial Date:	11 Jul 1931
Burial Place:	Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Cemetery Section:	Church of England

[ss002d6252]

1 hour ago, davidbohl said:

Any more thoughts on her middle name ?, at least we know she was C of E.

Am I correct in saying she had to provide her marriage cert or George's birth cert to receive the pension ?

From Anc

 

Name:	Ada Mare Chesseman
Age:	64
Record Type:	Burial
Birth Date:	abt 1867
Death Date:	abt 1931
Burial Date:	11 Jul 1931
Burial Place:	Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Cemetery Section:	Church of England

Yes.

Claims would be dealt with on a WF25 (slightly different versions exist but pretty much the same).

Craig

[Mark1959]

If memory serves the Joneses were the occupiers of 90 Arundel Avenue for years after the war according to electoral registers. 2 ladies. Dodgy internet connection in France so hard to check. All fits.

Edited 20 December , 2021 by Mark1959

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

On 18/12/2021 at 19:48, corisande said:

I don't think that is her

Either she would be and unmarried Ada in 1926, or a married one (in which case she was not born Cheeseman)

She is unlikely to have married and then reverted to her maiden name

One has to remember that in that era, for many people, the truth could be quite flexible.

Just to expand on her birth record you mentioned, it was in the December quarter of 1867:

Births Dec 1867   (>99%)
Cheeseman	Ada		Bromley	2a	305

[corisande]

4 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

One has to remember that in that era, for many people, the truth could be quite flexible.

I was replying to the suggestion that her marriage might have been

There is a marriage in 1895, she is the daughter of Frederick and Emmeline Cheeseman

It is quite possible, even probable that George was her illegitimate child, but I think it unlikely that she married in 1895, then reverted to he maiden name some time later

I don't think that flexibility with the truth was necessary when she got her job with the Jones sisters

 

[TEW]

The  .gov GRO website shows a birth of George Henry Cheesman, 2nd Qtr. 1890 in Maidstone. Mother's maiden name is not entered which more than likely equates to an illegitimate birth.

TEW

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1871 Census, Frederick Cheeseman is a Police Constable, Greenwich, Kent.
It looks as though Emmeline dies in 1873 in Greenwich. He re-marries Charlotte Fisk later that year.
In 1881, he is a General Labourer.