Mtn. gun type, 5th Bat. S.A.M.R. 1/1918 in PEA?

[Holger Kotthaus]

Mtn. gun type, 5th Bat. S.A.M.R. 1/1918 in PEA?

(I have separated this question from the previous post Luambala Mozambique because this is less about the operation of the I. and II./ 1. K.A.R. around Luambala and the 5th battery S.A.M.R. wasn´t used there.)

 

Background:

After the campaign, 1915 in German South West Africa, the UDF captured also, all 12 German 7.5cm Mountain Gun L/17 M.1904 (Erhardt): https://abload.de/img/75-cmmtsg.l17m1904_canekxo.jpg

At the beginning of the campaign, 1916 in GEA, the 5th Bat. S.A.M.R., used within the columns of Rodger and Murray, later Hawthorn and Shorthose, six of these German mountain guns in the southwest of GEA. https://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=484695&t=1

 

Following is known:

Records of Battery Quartermaster Sergeant J.G. Maker:

As far as I understand, the 5th Bat. S.A.M.R. battery was converted to Stokes mortar at Songea / GEA at the end of 1917. However, it is not clear from the records whether the mountain guns listed were still of German origin or already were British type.

Source: Vol 4 No 2, A Narrative of the Right Section, 5th Mountain Battery, South African Mounted Riflemen, Central African Imperial Service Contingent, Nyasaland, 1915 - 1918. http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol042jm.html

 

Details:

1st January 1918, Hawthorns Column (I., II. III./ 1. K.A.R) consists among other things of two Mountain Guns and six Stokes mortars, within the 5th battery S.A.M.R.

Source: WO-95-5295-1_General Headquarters Branches and Services; General Staff. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/6434583f145a4796b69cc797d74a3711

 

Question:

What type of mountain guns did the 5th battery S.A.M.R. use in January 1918 in the north-western part of PEA?

 

Regards Holger

[Guest]

Mate,

This problem, comes when ever the other side uses captured weapons, that is finding the ammo for it.

I had a mate who use to carry a AK with him, but during a fire fight, he quickly used all the ammo, and had to dump it.

Unless the British could keep the ammo up, why would they keep these German Guns, unless they rebored them to fit our ammo?

S.B

[Holger Kotthaus]

Steve,

A lack of ammunition is a good argument for the possible outsourcing of the German mountain guns.

(All twelve captured guns are still existing up today: http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk/militaria/mountaingun.htm)

At the beginning of the war, these German mountain guns were a modern design due to its QF + BL system, recoil absorber and dismantling construction. That was also the reason why the UDF continued to use these captured guns for the campaign in GEA, until, probably no more ammunition and spare parts were available. In the second half of the GW, British constructions were available in a corresponding number. The adequate Vickers construction was available as gun (QF BL 2.75-inch /70 mm) and howitzer (QF BL 3.7-inch /94 mm). The howitzer was verifiably used on April 11, 1918 in PEA.

Let me rephrase my question:

Were the British QF BL 2.75-inch / 70 mm mts. guns used in 1918 in East Africa, or at that time the German guns were still in service at the 5th bat S.A.M.R.?

Regards Holger

 

[Guest]

Mate,

I am sorry, but the guns in East Africa is out of my wheelhouse.

12Pdr or (2.75inch) replaced 10Pdrs with the Mountain battys around Feb 1916 in Egypt

At lest the HK&SMB I have in the Camel Corps changed over at that date.

When this filtered down the line to other Batteries in East Africa will need more then my poor self.

Cheers

S.B

[Holger Kotthaus]

Steve,

. . . the article below, mentioned that only 183 pieces were produced. Perhaps there will be information at a later date, if the BL 2.75-inch (70-mm) were also delivered to Commonwealth units East Africa?

Quote

 

Camel artillery ready to fire

. The BL 2.75-inch (70-mm) calibre mountain gun could fire shrapnel and high explosive (HE) shells out to a range of 5,600 yards (5120 m) and 5800 yards (5300 m) respectively. It was a comparatively modern design having only been accepted into service by the British Army in 1914, when it was chosen as a replacement for the obsolescent 1901 BL 10-pounder mountain gun. Due to its specialised function the need for the BL 2.75-inch mountain gun was very limited and only 183 were built during the entire war (by contrast just over 9000 18-pounder field guns were produced for the British Army during the same period).

Source: https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/camel-artillery-ready-fire

 

By the way; - seem to be that the Australians used also, captured German 7,5-cm Mountain guns M1904 Krupp, which were before in Ottoman service:

http://www.landships.info/landships/artillery_articles/images/75_GebK_M04_7.jpg

http://www.landships.info/landships/artillery_articles/images/75_GebK_M04_8.jpg

Regards Holger