sprogman Posted 13 December , 2021 Share Posted 13 December , 2021 I'm a complete newbie to Army research but I was wondering whether Acting or Temporary rank officers were authorised to wear their Acting or Temporary rank uniform? May I ask what the difference between an Acting Captain and a Temporary Captain is? (And also Hon. Captain?) Apologies for my questions if they seem simple; I could not find satisfactory answers on Google... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 13 December , 2021 Share Posted 13 December , 2021 (edited) I'm not an expert on rank, but my understanding is as follows. Acting was applied for a period of time to see if the soldier was up to the job before being fully promoted. Temporary applied to officers who were commissioned for the duration of the war i.e they were not officers of the regular army. Honorary was a title given to officers on retirement who had given exceptional service, for example a Major might be given the title of Honorary Colonel. Edited 13 December , 2021 by Gardenerbill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 December , 2021 Share Posted 13 December , 2021 (edited) On 13/12/2021 at 08:59, sprogman said: I'm a complete newbie to Army research but I was wondering whether Acting or Temporary rank officers were authorised to wear their Acting or Temporary rank uniform? May I ask what the difference between an Acting Captain and a Temporary Captain is? (And also Hon. Captain?) Apologies for my questions if they seem simple; I could not find satisfactory answers on Google... I can understand your difficulties as the matters you query can become quite complicated and relate to pay and subsequent seniority should the promotion become permanent. I hope that the following general principles (from memory only) might aid your understanding: 1. Regardless of whether Acting or Temporary promotion, providing that the necessary rank badges are available (in extremis they can be improvised) then the rank to which the individual has been raised is worn. 2. Acting rank usually attracts extra pay and the promotion is frequently for an open ended period that often terminates only when the rank is subsequently confirmed as substantive (frequently with backdated seniority). Nevertheless, if circumstances changed it was/is always possible to revert to the lower, substantive rank. Acting rank is frequently used in peacetime, as well as in war. It’s an especially expedient and flexible manning policy for the management of regular officers. 3. Temporary rank is usually for a shorter, more finite period of time, or a set duration, and might well not always attract extra pay, although there is the option to do so when deemed appropriate. Temporary rank was often a common feature of full scale War, especially for war-raised commissions in a citizen based Army and less often used in peacetime. 4. Honorary rank is largely an obsolete category and nowadays only used rarely and in a single context. It had previously been most commonly used in three categories. The first was exclusively for those officers raised from the ranks, such as quarter-master and riding-master (there were others) who served in specialised roles and the distinction was intended to mark them as non-combatant officers (meaning they were not ordinarily to command men in a combat role). The second was for professionally qualified officers in non-combatant roles who did not ordinarily have military titles. A common example was Commissary officers who for a period were graded at various ascending levels of Commissary with the equivalent Honorary military rank appended. It had similarly at one time applied to medical Surgeons. This was deeply unpopular because it was perceived by many as sub par and inferior, and eventually such officers received full military rank. Finally, there is the category still used today, and that is for officers elevated upon retirement, or even civilians without prior military experience, who are given military roles as figureheads for organisational and / or ceremonial purposes. Regiments and corps of the British Army generally have honorary colonels who assist the principal regimental colonel with his duties. They, i.e. honorary figures, are also especially common in cadet and auxiliary forces organisations. NB. There are two publications in which these matters are usually set out in detail, providing that their usage remains extant and relevant. They are the King’s Regulations for the Army and the Royal Warrant for Army Pay and Pensions. Online access to iterations for the WW1, or near periods are accessible at the superb and unmatched British Army page in FIBIWiki: https://wiki.fibis.org/w/British_Army You will need to scroll down to find them, the various links lead to sub sections of data, etc. Edited 15 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 15 December , 2021 Share Posted 15 December , 2021 @sprogman: are you aware that your questions have been answered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 15 December , 2021 Share Posted 15 December , 2021 @FROGSMILE sprogman's profile suggests they returned to the site on Monday at 12.12 after we posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 15 December , 2021 Share Posted 15 December , 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said: @FROGSMILE sprogman's profile suggests they returned to the site on Monday at 12.12 after we posted. Thanks Bill, I’m sure he would have been mannerly enough to say thank you if he’d actually read our replies….don’t you think? 😏 Edited 15 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprogman Posted 16 December , 2021 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2021 (edited) I'm sorry, gents but I had to board a flight then go through the various arrivals/quarantine/testing procedures. Been rather hectic - I did have a glance at the post when I was pinged through my email but other than the fact that I simply didn't have the time to reply, I didn't think it would be correct to thank the gentleman who quite clearly spent a lot of time going the vast lengths to explain this, without actually having read his input properly. Though, I can say now - confidently - in the tranquility of my isolation room today, I have indeed read it thoroughly. I would like to extend my gratitude to FROGSMILE and Gardenerbill respectively and apologise to both gentlemen if any offence was caused due to my absence of reply. On a slightly different note, how would one go about understanding 'seniority' and 'substantive'? I never quite understood those terms and if you would be kind to explain them in laymen terms (perhaps in even more simpler terms, given my lacking intelligence and knowledge in Army research; I'm an RAF man...)? Additionally to this query, I was recently given a Royal Artillery Pilot's uniform and his rank braiding/epaulettes denote the rank of Captain. He was awarded the DFC and I'm trying to strike out any possibilities. I keep coming across Acting and Honorary Captains on the DFC decorations list. Would such Acting/Temporary Captains be eligible for an upgrade to a Captain's uniform or would they have usually retained their Lieutenant's kit? Edited 16 December , 2021 by sprogman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 16 December , 2021 Share Posted 16 December , 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, sprogman said: I'm sorry, gents but I had to board a flight then go through the various arrivals/quarantine/testing procedures. Been rather hectic - I did have a glance at the post when I was pinged through my email but other than the fact that I simply didn't have the time to reply, I didn't think it would be correct to thank the gentleman who quite clearly spent a lot of time going the vast lengths to explain this, without actually having read his input properly. Though, I can say now - confidently - in the tranquility of my isolation room today, I have indeed read it thoroughly. I would like to extend my gratitude to FROGSMILE and Gardenerbill respectively and apologise to both gentlemen if any offence was caused due to my absence of reply. On a slightly different note, how would one go about understanding 'seniority' and 'substantive'? I never quite understood those terms and if you would be kind to explain them in laymen terms (perhaps in even more simpler terms, given my lacking intelligence and knowledge in Army research; I'm an RAF man...)? Additionally to this query, I was recently given a Royal Artillery Pilot's uniform and his rank braiding/epaulettes denote the rank of Captain. He was awarded the DFC and I'm trying to strike out any possibilities. I keep coming across Acting and Honorary Captains on the DFC decorations list. Would such Acting/Temporary Captains be eligible for an upgrade to a Captain's uniform or would they have usually retained their Lieutenant's kit? I was glad to help with your inquiry, but merely wondered where you had disappeared to. 1. Substantive rank is the point at which the promotion becomes permanent and most importantly of all is the start date for pensionable service in that rank (i.e. pensions are paid on an ascending scale and go up for each year served in that rank, so a man who retires as a captain with 4-years in that rank will receive less pension than a man who retires with 8-years in that rank). It’s an inviolate principle and would apply equally to a Royal Navy, or Royal Air Force officer (or NCO) so I’m a little surprised that you’re unaware of it, unless your service was very short and very junior. It (substantive rank date) is also the point at which seniority in that rank generally starts (traditionally recorded in the London Gazette and referred to colloquially as “gazetted”) so a captain with a seniority date within 1914 would be senior to say a captain with a seniority within 1915. In extremis even a matter of days difference still counts, and there’s a famous scene that demonstrates the principle in the film ZULU where Lieutenant Chard (an engineer officer played by Stanley Baker) establishes that he’s senior to Lieutenant Bromhead (an infantry officer played by Michael Caine) because he had been gazetted in the same rank (i.e. full lieutenant) first. 2. As you’re former RAF I will excuse your having to be told twice 😉that if your artillery pilot was wearing a uniform with the badge of rank of captain (three rank stars/pips) then he was a captain, regardless of whether acting rank, or temporary rank (with substantive rank of lieutenant). On his service record the niceties of his actual substantive rank at the time of the award would be noted along with whatever elevated status he held, but in a media report (newspapers, etc.) he would be referred to as, e.g. Captain A. Another DFC…. Edited 17 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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