Gun Layer Badge

[Stanley]

Does anyone recognise the significance/ date this sleeve badge? It looks like an ‘L’ rather than the more usual ‘LG’ 

I don’t know which unit this man served in, so any information gratefully received 

[Alan24]

Could it be LAYER as in an RGA Gun Layer?

[FROGSMILE]

On 02/12/2021 at 20:54, Stanley said:

Does anyone recognise the significance/ date this sleeve badge? It looks like an ‘L’ rather than the more usual ‘LG’ 

I don’t know which unit this man served in, so any information gratefully received

It’s a gun ‘Layer’ badge for the Royal Artillery.  These were men specially trained in the laying (alignment and aiming) by moving the trail and using both open sights (similar in principle to a rifle), plus plumb-bobs with quadrants, and clinometers and compass, but increasingly with more sophisticated optical apparatus that incorporated adjustable dials/drums for elevation and line (bearing).  There is an excellent explanation of the process by forum member Nigelef here: https://nigelef.tripod.com/fc_laying.htm

 

 

Edited 6 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Stanley]

1 hour ago, Alan24 said:

Could it be LAYER as in an RGA Gun Layer?

Many thanks Alan. 👍

[Stanley]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

It’s a gun ‘Layer’ badge for the Royal Artillery.  These were men specially trained in the laying (alignment and aiming) by moving the trail and using both open sights (similar in principle to a rifle), plus plumb-bobs with quadrants, and clinometers and compass, but increasingly with more sophisticated optical apparatus that incorporated adjustable dials/drums for azimuth and elevation.  There is an excellent explanation of the process by forum member Nigelef here: https://nigelef.tripod.com/fc_laying.htm

 

 

Thanks for a very comprehensive reply, Frog. Much appreciated. 

[FROGSMILE]

36 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Thanks for a very comprehensive reply, Frog. Much appreciated. 

He’s wearing a particularly fine wristwatch at a time when most other ranks were still using pocket watches.

Edited 2 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Stanley]

Thanks for that, Frog. His dad was minted: a Scottish credit draper, whose family lived in an architect-designed house/shop. John survived the war and took over the business. Don’t know what happened to the watch…

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Stanley said:

Thanks for that, Frog. His dad was minted: a Scottish credit draper, whose family lived in an architect-designed house/shop. John survived the war and took over the business. Don’t know what happened to the watch…

It’s a reflection of how the social background of soldiers diversified massively during the war and became much more representative of all social classes, whereas before the war the vast majority were broadly speaking working class, with just a leavening of lower middle class.

[Stanley]

This is all excellent stuff, Frog, thank you. While I’ve got you looking at the photograph, are you also able to hazard a guess as to his shoulder titles (if that’s the right term)?

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, Stanley said:

This is all excellent stuff, Frog, thank you. While I’ve got you looking at the photograph, are you also able to hazard a guess as to his shoulder titles (if that’s the right term)?

Unfortunately the image you’ve posted is blurred whereas a proper scan of the original photo would be much more revealing (public libraries have scanners).  It’s clearly a 3-letter shoulder title and so definitely one of the three, combatant branches of the artillery, RFA, RHA, or RGA (field, horse and garrison artillery respectively).

Edited 3 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Stanley]

Thanks again. Unfortunately I can’t do better than this scan. It’s a process of elimination, I guess: according to the medal cards there are 9 John Buchanan’s in the RFA but 2 are Drivers and 1 a Bombardier. The remaining 6 are Gunners: would a Layer only be a Gunner? 
There are also 3 Gunners in the RGA and none in the RHA. 

[battle of loos]

good morning,

here are 2 field specialty badges :

Layer :

Lewis Gunner :

regards

michel

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, battle of loos said:

good morning,

here are 2 field specialty badges :

Layer :

Lewis Gunner :

regards

michel

Thank you Michel, I always like to see your collection, knowing that it has been dug from the ground of battle.  Each artefact has a very special provenance that way.

Edited 3 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Alan24]

On 03/12/2021 at 12:49, Stanley said:

would a Layer only be a Gunner? 
There are also 3 Gunners in the RGA and none in the RHA. 

The photo in the original post shows him as a Gunner. It's very unlikely that someone with a proficiency of a Gun Layer would be used as a Driver. I belive drivers were paid slightly less than gunners, maybe 1d per day, from memory. 

Your chap in the photo looks to be well built. Certainly in the early days of the war the Garrison Artillety took the bigger men. I think they had a minimum chest measurement requirement.

If I were you I'd start looking at the 3 RGA men.

Are there any medals in the family which could give him a service number?

[FROGSMILE]

On 03/12/2021 at 12:49, Stanley said:

Thanks again. Unfortunately I can’t do better than this scan. It’s a process of elimination, I guess: according to the medal cards there are 9 John Buchanan’s in the RFA but 2 are Drivers and 1 a Bombardier. The remaining 6 are Gunners: would a Layer only be a Gunner? 
There are also 3 Gunners in the RGA and none in the RHA. 

I concur with Alan24, Stan, his advice is a good logic to follow I think.

NB.  Your image doesn’t look like a ‘scan’ at all, more a digital photographic copy of an original wet plate photograph.

Edited 5 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Stanley]

Thanks for the advice, chaps. I think that he was short but sturdy. There appear to be no medals. He remained unmarried, lived with his sister and died in obscurity, I know not where. 

[battle of loos]

good morning,

what is his name :

John Buchanan ?

regards

michel

 

[Michelle Young]

I’ve edited the title, as the original was somewhat misleading.

[Stanley]

36 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

I’ve edited the title, as the original was somewhat misleading.

Thanks very much 👍

43 minutes ago, battle of loos said:

good morning,

what is his name :

John Buchanan ?

regards

michel

 

Bang on, Michel. No middle name. Born Twickenham, Middlesex 1889.

Thanks for your interest. 👍

[Alan24]

On 03/12/2021 at 12:49, Stanley said:

There are also 3 Gunners in the RGA 

Their details are...

122024 - a 1916 transfer from the TF or infantry.

140910 - enlistment date Jan to Mar 1917 at no. 2 Depot Fort Brockhurst. Gosport. Hampshire.

153104 - enlistment date Apr 1917 at no.3 Depot The Citadel Plymouth. Devon.

There were 4 Depots, a man was normally sent to the nearest one to his home. In this case that would be Fort Brockhurst but I wouldn't take for granted that he's 140910 without any other evidence to coroberate.

Info above from Kevin Rowlinson's research which can be found on another thread.

Edited 5 December , 2021 by Alan24

[Alan24]

There is a service record for 153104 and he's from Falkirk, Scotland so we can discount him. 

[Stanley]

Thanks very much for this information,  Alan. I can’t see anything there to positively identify him but I’m grateful to you for your efforts. 

[david murdoch]

This is my grandfather's cousin Robert Bennie Murdoch 1171 RGA He served in Orkney during the war. He's wearing RGA shoulder titles and metal Layer's badge.

[FROGSMILE]

13 hours ago, david murdoch said:

This is my grandfather's cousin Robert Bennie Murdoch 1171 RGA He served in Orkney during the war. He's wearing RGA shoulder titles and metal Layer's badge.

It’s interesting that the badge appears alternatively, in the two photographs, on both upper right arm, and lower left arm.  As a badge of appointment it’s more usually and correctly seen on the upper right arm.  The lower left arm is generally reserved for gunnery prize and skill at arms badges.  

Lowermost photo courtesy of GWF1967.

Edited 6 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE