Ww1 frustration and confusion

[Alecras234]

Hi my name is Ash and I'm struggling to learn about the First world War.   I have been reading ww1 books for the past 2 years or so and I still haven't really got the hang of it.   I'm reading a book by Lyn Macdonald called 1914, days of hope, and  now that the VEF has arrived in France its confusing.   She's mentioning Quartermaster, Brigade Battalion, Division and such,  I'm thinking What?  I get all frustrated and go off reading that book and start a different ww1 book thinking I'd understand that better but I get more confused and frustrated.   Is there an aspect of the first world War that's easier to understand?

[jay dubaya]

Welcome to the forum Ash. 
Having some understanding of the Army and how it was subdivided into all its smaller components will help you greatly. The mother site here - https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/ will hopefully give you a better understanding this.

 

J

[4thGordons]

Hi Ash,

This is a really difficult question to answer! I think your experience is probably quite common though.

Because the Great War was such a monumental series of events it touched virtually ever aspect of human existence there are literally countless ways to approach it. Even when you have been looking at it for decades people routinely come up with original elements or original ways of reexamining well studied elements so if you aim is to "get it" (all) I think you are going to be destined to be frustrated!  However, I would like to try and suggest some ways of thinking about it. 

I suppose I would like to start by asking what is it that you are most interested in?  One way to approach this would be to look at the way the forum is sub-divided into various headers. While there could be any number of objections to this division (things that are missing or should be combined) as a basic way of approaching thinking about the conflict it would seem to be pretty good.  The one aspect that is missing (in my view) from the list is the political/geo strategic view - but I am sure other members would have others. Anyway it is a place to start.

So is there one of the categories that strikes you as most interesting or are you looking for a general overview of causes, background, major events, chronology etc? Something reasonably general that will let you get a big picture view.

Lynn MacDonald's books are wonderful and were the place I suspect a good number of us started with WWI reading -- but they are not going to give you this high-level view. They consist mostly of recollections of British veterans (eye witness - although somewhat after the even) so they are great for insight into that -- but not so good on other aspects. MacDonald's books are organised by year (you are looking at 1914 but there are also volumes covering 1915/16/17/18  and a book about nurses called "Roses of No-Man's Land") so to get a general picture you would need to look at all of those -- and even then it would only be one particular view (British focused and based on eyewitness recollection).

The problem that you are running into with unfamiliar and technical vocabulary is also common - each sub-field of the conflict has its own specialized language - sometimes it is old fashioned usage (from the period) - sometimes it is technical (as in weapons and or military organization) and sometimes it is "academic" (for example terminology developed within the books writing about the topic - the "learning curve thesis" for example, describing the efforts by military leadership to learn and apply the lessons of the new technology of warfare) I don't think there is any simple solution to this issue other than gaining familiarity. Many books will have a glossary of terms that can be useful, at one point I put a very general one of these together for something I was doing - let me see if I can find it. I do know that glossaries of unfamiliar terms  are often included in the general books on WWI, particularly some of the books that are intended for courses on the war (ie more like textbooks)

SO....

If there is one of the headings that particularly interests you (or several) perhaps you could post those and then people can make specific suggestions as to reading. The topic is so huge and has been written about for a century so the choice is immense and different aspects appeal to different people. As an example, my particular interests are quite broad ranging and have different sources

1) I am interested in the experience of Scottish Soldiers and in particular the Gordon Highlanders because that is my family connection to the Great War.

2) I am interested in the evolution of rifles of the Great War (and their use)

3) I am interested in the politics and diplomacy of the War (this is much more closely related to my work)

4) I am interested in the American experience (and how it differs from others) in part, this is because I moved to the US 30 years ago (because of a project I worked on more recently I spent several years looking at American Field Service (ambulance) volunteers, and also the US 33rd Division - from my adopted home state of Illinois)

5) I am interested in photography and the photographs of the great war

As you can see these are wide ranging and each of them could (and have) generate hundreds of books. It does mean that when I visit the forum I tend to gravitate to topics that refer to the above (in part because they are of interest and in part because they are where I might have something to contribute to the discussion. Similarly when I browse my local library or visit a bookshop I tend to look for things in these general areas.

If you could come up with a general list of 2 or 3 topics which you think are your primary areas of interest I am sure the wealth of knowledge on the forum might be able to provide suggestions.

Chris

[kenf48]

Hello again Ash,

We acknowledge your difficulties and the fact you sometimes find it difficult to concentrate due to your head injury.

Chris has offered sound advice on trying to single out specific interests, advice which I believe has been posted on a number of previous occasions.

Similarly there have been previous observations on the suitability of Lyn Macdonald's books as an introduction to the Great War, especially given your circumstances.  

I think as you have been struggling with '1914' for over two years now, perhaps worth considering some of the other titles that have been suggested by members of the forum

I hope you understand, members as always are keen to help but they may not be aware of the help you have been offered in the past and the previous difficulties you have encountered both here and on Facebook.

 

Ken

 

 

[Moonraker]

Hi Ash, good to hear from you again. In the two years you've been a member of the GWF, I've come to sympathise with your difficulty in getting to grips with broader aspects of the war as my memory and concentration have become affected by advancing years! I don't think that nowadays I could read a book with so many military and geographical details (mostly European) and names as 1914 and remember very much afterwards.

Chris offers some excellent advice and amplifies some that I've suggested to you before. Choose two or three topics that interest you and concentrate on them. They could be quite minor aspects, like mine: training within the county of Wiltshire. Many times over the years, I've gone off - briefly - at a tangent to find out about other aspects, many relating to the Home Front, others (such as prisoners of war) further afield. I'm not much interested in campaigns or the overall history of the war itself.

[knittinganddeath]

Would podcasts/audiobooks be a plausible alternative for you? My husband and also our oldest son don't like to read on paper but enjoy audiobooks and have "read" a lot in that way. The BBC has a lot of WWI content, including podcasts and short films, so you wouldn't have to spend money right away if you want to test the podcast/audiobook format.

[Moonraker]

And Googling will lead you to a wide range of material, a lot being on YouTube.

[Keith_history_buff]

I would concur with Ken's statement.

Stepping aside from WW1, you need to look at your learning style. What do you have difficulty in remembering, what information do you retain. I would definitely recommend using mind maps as a way to record, in a manner that is personal to you, a new concept that you come across, so that you have the mind map to jog your memory, and to assist your recall. I would propose that your first goal, in this regard, is to have an understanding of the various military hierarchies (battalion, brigade etc.) That way, when there is mention of a battalion or whatever, you do not get distracted and can continue to read an account of the war without the distraction of unfamiliar terms.

Bearing in mind your learning style, it is worth reading books that match that. There have been people that have advised you on this forum and on facebook as to books that are more likely to fit in with your style. 

There are instances where you ask for advice, and then ask the same questions a few months later. It would be worth going through the original advice, and if it has not been fruitful, to comment at that particular point, rather than to ask the same question once more, as it gives the impression that you ignore the advice that people have taken the time to consider and to provide.  

Wishing you well in your quest to learn more about WW1.
Keith

 

[George Rayner]

Morning Ash

Hopefully this may help you a bit with the structure of the British Army

Hierarchy of combat ranks: Britain, Germany and France

The only functional difference between the British, French and German armies was that the battalions of a French or German regiment (usually three) fought together and formed a combat unit, while those of a British regiment might never do so. The table below gives a (simplified) hierarchy of combat ranks within the British, French and German armies and gives an idea of the job men at each rank might perform. The reality was considerably more complex. For instance, the British army distinguished between ‘ranks’ and ‘appointments’ and between substantive, brevet, temporary and acting ranks. The practical effect of this was limited. Likewise, it makes little difference that what one line infantry regiment might call a ‘private’, the Guards would designate as a ‘guardsman’ and the Royal Artillery a ‘sapper’. Or that a Hauptmann in the German infantry would be known as a Rittmeister in the cavalry. Unit strengths, of course, could vary dramatically, and casualties might mean that junior officers and non-commissioned officers (NCOs) found themselves temporarily in command one or even two levels above their normal station.

Rank	Command	Approximate number of men under command	German Equivalent	French Equivalent
Field-Marshal	Army Group	2,000,000	Generalfeldmarschall	Maréchal de France
General	Army	300,000	Generaloberst	Général d’Armée
Lieutenant-General	Corps	60,000	General der Infanterie/Kavallerie /Artillerie	Général de Corps d’Armée
Major-General	Division	12,000	Generalleutnant	Général de Division
Brigadier-General	Brigade	3,500	Generalmajor	Général de Brigade
Lieutenant-Colonel	Battalion commanding  officer (CO)	1,000	Oberstleutnant	Lieutenant-Colonel
Major	Battalion second in command		Major	Commandant
Captain	Company	200	Hauptmann	Capitaine
Lieutenant or Second Lieutenant	Platoon	50	Oberleutnant or Leutnant	Lieutenant or Sous-Lieutenant
Sergeant	Platoon second in command		Feldwebel or Sergeant	Sergent
Corporal or Lance Corporal	Section	12	Unteroffizier or Gefreiter	Caporal
Private	None	0	Soldat	Soldat

 Before 1914 most infantry regiments had two active battalions, each of about 1,000 men, plus a part-time Territorial battalion. Each battalion was divided into four companies. A company consisted of four platoons, each of about 50 men, under a Lieutenant or Second-Lieutenant, assisted by a Sergeant. Within a platoon were four sections of 12 men. The cavalry used different terms but had similar organisation. In addition, specialist troops were grouped into so-called corps such as the Royal Artillery or Royal Engineers.

These from the British Library

And in The Long Long Trail here are the rank hierarchy

British army ranks during the Great War - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

and specifically a Quartermaster looked after supplies (at least in my simple mind they did)

George

 

[WhiteStarLine]

Hi Ash and nice to see you back.

Firstly, well done for not giving up.

Secondly, you're with a group happy to help you.  I find it really hard at times to get my head around all of these divisions and corps and brigades and I have never had a head injury.  It is just hard work!

Thirdly, the suggestion to find WW1 videos on YouTube is a good one.  There are some really helpful videos on there.  Start watching some and if it gets complex, close it and find another.

[Michelle Young]

Here’s another thread with suggestions 

 

[knittinganddeath]

I hope you won't take offence if I suggest that books for children/young adults could provide a "soft start" (as we say in Norwegian).

You might also consider books with a lot of photographs; I'm currently trying to get my hands on a hard copy of John Wilson-Hughes' A History of WWI in 100 Objects for my nearly-10-year-old son, as I think it's a book he will be able to grow into. Right now the photos of the objects and the summaries will be enough for him but as he gets older and acquires a better vocabulary he can read the longer essays.

We also read a lot of war-related graphic novels.

 

[Alecras234]

I'm reading books on ww1 which are mostly memoirs, im reaDing a book by Lyn Macdonald at the  moment called 1914, days of hope,  there's so much going on im confused and it talks about brigades, batteries, which confuses me more as i don't knowwhat a brigade, division, battery, and so on are.    I'm interested in the BEF and they're adventures from Mons to the marne to ypres and so on.    

[Michelle Young]

Give up on it, you’ve been trying with that book since 2019. Further up the thread you have an explanation of army structure, and on the Long Long Trail it explains the structure of the Army, I suggest that you print out the pages and keep them to hand to refer to when you get a bit confused with it all. Try Riding Te Retreat by Richard Holmes, it’s chatty, amusing and a good overview. If you want memoirs,  there are a few about 1914. Personally, if I were you I’d stick to memoirs. 

[Alecras234]

What book can i read that tells the story of the first few months of ww1 in 1914?  I have looked on amazon, i like the sound of this book https://www.amazon.co.uk/1914-Fight-Britain-Coming-First-ebook/dp/B00CQ1DL7A/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=allan+mallinson+1914&qid=1638890893&s=digital-text&sr=1-1 as i've read the sample of it and it talks about 10 downing street and the anticipation between ministers and things.    What i want is memoirs ecplaining from mobilization through to the Christmas truce.

[Michelle Young]

Here’s a few titles. Easier to photograph than type out all the triples and authors! 

[Alecras234]

I fancy Retreat and rearguard but it isn't a memoir is it?   

[Michelle Young]

No that one isn’t. I re-read it recently and really enjoyed it. 

[Alecras234]

what do you think to this?https://www.amazon.co.uk/MONS-FIRST-BATTLE-YPRES-ebook/dp/B00K34QBPQ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=mons+to+ypres&qid=1638900251&s=digital-text&sr=1-1

[Alecras234]

i found this, i'll give it a try.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00R0F9HJI?storeType=ebooks&pf_rd_p=002334f0-6284-405f-a748-ba17ba27e06a&pf_rd_r=EGK0QG63AMTVQ5DKCR7J&pd_rd_wg=zEvXZ&pd_rd_i=B00R0F9HJI&ref_=dbs_r_recs_rtpb_r_0&pd_rd_w=9NTKx&pd_rd_r=a3c30ebb-51ab-4372-8cb1-3820c0c500c8

[mancpal]

Ash,

I don’t know whether this will help but at the start of my interest I found a few books written by veterans. The ones which I found interesting tended to be small publications either self published or with the help of their respective regiments, they give a first hand account, often they aren’t the tale of front line battles necessarily, but can contain details that help us all understand the path to war in terms of recruitment, training, postings etc.

This may not help you greatly but I found that by reading the more basic accounts it helped me start from scratch in terms of learning about the war in general.

There are members on this forum (thinking of myself specifically) who may have made hundreds of submissions, and although I have learned so much,WW1 is such a huge subject that to start at the beginning helped me understand the later occurrences.

Please don’t give up your interest, it’s more a case of finding an appropriate way to learn (that is the same for all of us).

Simon

[Alecras234]

Hi im looking for a memoir from the beginning of ww1 that isn't too detailed but i can't find one. Prefrebly a british memoir, BEF.  I couldn't get on with Lyn Macdonald books, i found them too detailed which confused me. So a not so detailed memoir of 1914 would be good.  i like reading about how they embarked at Southampton and arrived at Bologne sor Le Hvre, then marched up to camp, things like that.

 

 

 

Edited 9 December , 2021 by Alecras234

[Michelle Young]

So the ones I listed with photos, none of them? 

[Alecras234]

I find it easier to read books on kindle and the books you posted aren't in kindle format.   The reason i find kindle easier is because im disabled and struggle to hold hardback or paperback books.

[Gunner Bailey]

On 07/12/2021 at 17:57, Michelle Young said:

No that one isn’t. I re-read it recently and really enjoyed it. 

I was very impressed by Massacre of the Innocents. A worthwhile read.