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Army Form B.104-80A


Gerry1
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Hi.   My wife's grandfather was wounded in WW1 and was eventually given an honourable discharge.  I have collated his records including war diaries etc.  But I'm trying to clarify when he was injured.  He was included in the War Office Weekly Casualty List dated 8 May 1918, so he should be within 4 weeks of that date I believe. So I based his story around that date.  I have just been given the Army Form B.104-80A which is dated 8 April 1918 saying they have been notified he has been admitted to a Hospital in France.  So he would have been injured some time before that.  but there is another date on the Form; a Rubber Stamp with INFANTRY RECORDS 4 MAR 1918  FULWOOD BARRACKS.   So instead of thinking he was injured in April 1918 was he in fact injured on 4 March 1918 or before.   Can anyone please help and advise 

TW Eakhurst -letter wounded-France 1918 (1).jpg

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6 minutes ago, Gerry1 said:

He was included in the War Office Weekly Casualty List dated 8 May 1918, so he should be within 4 weeks of that date I believe

The 4 weeks is just a 'typical' period - sometimes it can be far longer.

Craig

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9 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

I suspect that the blank forms had perhaps been pre-stamped and stored until needed.

Well, that's what I would assume, but without any reference to why it was done, it all seems a bit pointless.

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Obviously he  was injured prior to 8 April 1918 as this a notification of a notification.  Checked war diaries and there were no wounded casualties from Feb 1 to March 24.  Then the next 5 days March 25-29 there were 156.  And none March 30-April 8.   So the only date that makes sense is the 8 April 1918 as he would be 1 of the 156 wounded.    So I will adjust the records for March and April to show that Thomas was injured during 25-29 March 1918; he was not active with the regiment for the rest of the war.   My wife remembers as a child seeing the hole in his arm !   Thanks for your comments

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1 hour ago, Gerry1 said:

Obviously he  was injured prior to 8 April 1918 as this a notification of a notification.  Checked war diaries and there were no wounded casualties from Feb 1 to March 24.  Then the next 5 days March 25-29 there were 156.  And none March 30-April 8.   So the only date that makes sense is the 8 April 1918 as he would be 1 of the 156 wounded.    So I will adjust the records for March and April to show that Thomas was injured during 25-29 March 1918; he was not active with the regiment for the rest of the war.   My wife remembers as a child seeing the hole in his arm !   Thanks for your comments

Keep in mind that diaries often don't record all wounded - they can be very hit-and-miss, even from day to day.

Craig

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One approach which I have used many many times and which has very often brought success in ascertaining when a soldier was wounded is to:

1) Go through the Manchester Regiment casualty list for the 8th May 1918 (within which 301042 Eakhurst appears).

2) For every man on that list, use the Medal Rolls to ascertain which Battalion of the Manchester Regiment the man was in. If Eakhurst was wounded alongside many others from the 1/8th Bn at the same time, then the prediction is that you should find plenty of other wounded men on that list who also served with the 1/8th Bn.

3) For those men on the list who served with the 1/8th Bn, then check if there is a surviving service record. If there is, then check if there is an Army Form B103 which will state the date of wounding and often the casualty evacuation route the wounded man took.

Examine all the results as a whole and decide whether you can draw a reasonable conclusion as to the date of wounding of Eakhurst.

It can be a lot of work but often very rewarding in answering the question you are after.

Regards

Russ

 

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His name is Thomas William Eakurst 301042.  He was in 1/8th Battalion (Ardwick,)  A Company. I have his Soldier’s Pay book upto part way thro 1917  medals  and a few other docs. 

I will have a go at your suggestion

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11 minutes ago, Gerry1 said:

Eakurst

So:

(i) the AF B104-80A, (ii) the WO Casualty List, (iii) the Medal Roll, (iv) his MIC (and hence presumably his medals), (v) the Pension Office and (vi) the Silver War Badge Roll all misspelt his name as Eakhurst !

Just goes to show - always question the various sources regardless as to how many time they say the same thing !

Regards

Russ 

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His name is Thomas William Eakurst 301042.  He was in 1/8th Battalion (Ardwick,)  A Company. I have his Soldier’s Pay book upto part way thro 1917  medals  and a few other docs. 

I will have a go at your suggestion

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Here's one to get you started:

300712 George Ingham 1/8th Bn Manchester Regiment suffered a GSW on 25/031918.

So consistent with War Diary entry when the Bn suffered numerous casualties.

 

 

300712.JPG

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I would agree that he most likely was wounded during the March 25th to 29th time period. Though, as Craig noted, war diaries can be hit and miss as far as listing of casualties. Having transcribed the 1/8th Manchester Regiment diary for May 1917 - November 1918 (my grandfather was also is the 1/8th, C company), it is definitely true. For example, the daily reports for April 1918 do not show any casualties, just a end of month total, which also differs from the 42nd Division war diary month-end total for the battalion! 

However, since the battalion was in either Brigade Reserve, or Divisional Reserve, during the first part of April, shelling appears to be the most likely cause of any injuries, if there were any. On two days it is mentioned there was shelling, but no casualties, and the only other time it is mentioned (April 5th): "All the battery positions behind were shelled with gas shells and a number fell near our trenches - a number of men had serious effects from it next day." All in all, I think it would be a very small chance he was injured during the March 30th to April 8th time period.

As far as the Daily War Casualty List, I did a quick search of the time period, and do note that 10 of the men killed on the 25th to 27th did not show up on on the lists until May 11th, so again, it certainly suggests Eakhurst was wounded during March 25th to 29th time period.

 

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Thanks Keith, good to have contact with you as I did use your transcripts in compiling Thomas's war story.  It certainly made the job easier.  I had to transcribe my 2 grandfathers and father in laws war diaries but only for relevant time spans and its interesting but very time consuming.   

I thought I had completed the war records for both families as far as I could go. Then my sister in law produced 2 documents that threw into doubt the time of Thomas Eakhurst injury in 1918 and that he was also discharged from hospital in Malta in Dec 1915, but it does'nt say if he was injured or ill.    So my story/record for him has to be amended when I can find more details of both events.  

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On 25/11/2021 at 21:09, Gerry1 said:

Hi. Is there a site to get the pension card free

Cheers  Gerry 

If you can get a free trial for Fold3 you should have access - otherwise it's either a subscription to Fold3 or via a Western Front Association subscription.

Craig

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Yes, transcribing a war diary can be tedious at times, especially when struggling over handwriting, and those odd words that defy transcription for hours on end, or never get figured out!

If you are interested in his evacuation after being injured, the 1/1 East Lancashire Field Ambulance War Diary does detail their efforts during the time period, and even have a map showing the evacuation routes to Souastre. (map courtesy of the National Archives):

1941301926_1-1EastLancashireFieldAmbulanceWO-95-2652-1_2p148.jpg.e0868134ceda6a904d7c8dc43e3c3490.jpg

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I'm after some advice relating to the same person, my wife's grandfather Thomas William Eakhurst.   He seems to have gone to Malta late 1915 but the Soldiers Pay book is creating confusion.

A little bit of backgound info---Based on information in his soldiers pay book and other docs he joined the 3rd/8th battalion Manchester Regiment (TF) on22 March 1915.  On the 6th May 1915 the 1/8th Battalion Manchester Regt. landed in Gallipoli.  The 2nd/8th was in Lancashire until that date so I presume they were absorbed into the 1/8th.  Leaving the 3/8th in Reserve.  On the 10 May 1915 Thomas wrote a letter regarding pensions to the Kings Own Royal Lancaster Regt. Militia and signed it " Pte. 3666 TW Eakhurst 3rd 8th Batt. Manchester Regt." from his home address in Ardwick Manchester.    So it seems he was still in reserve in the 3/8th in Manchester on 10 May 1915.   

Then we jump to the Soldiers Pay Book and at the back is a handwritten note from the Captain saying that this soldier was not in possession of the Pay Book but had a note book with 2 payment made.   the 2 entries were -- Sept 10  SS Soudan and Nov 28 Malta .  In the detailed pages the 2 entries are entered but the Sept 10 SS Soudan is crossed out and inserted above is Oct 6 Devenport.    The Soldiers pay book then show him in Malta 28 Nov 1915, I have a letter dated 7 Dec 1915 to show that he was discharge from Hospital in Malta, and a note in the Manchester Courier including him in Wounded- Mediterranean Losses.

  1. So did he go to  Gallipoli  then evacuated on the SS Soudan (as Wounded) in Sept 1915 to Malta.
  2. or was he in still in Devenport in Oct 1915 and not on the SS Soudan. 
  3. Either way he was in Malta 28 Nov and somehow he was wounded before or during. I have no record of this injury.  He was also shot in the arm in 1918.

I would appreciate any advice or comments please

cheers

Gerry

Screenshot 2021-11-26 143223.png

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Medal records create an uncertainty here.

Under #3666 it suggests he entered Theatre 3 on 25 Sep 1914
image.png
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1262/images/30850_A000484-02214?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=04e4fd84019b107e93f626d2bd3ec330&usePUB=true&_phsrc=NBE108&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=296965

The Silver war badge card under #301042 suggests he only enlisted in March 1915.
image.png

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1262/images/30850_A000484-02216?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=04e4fd84019b107e93f626d2bd3ec330&usePUB=true&_phsrc=NBE109&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=296967


Now if we take the date of 25 Sep 1914 to be an error for 25 Sep 1915 then that would tie in better with the use of Theatre 3, Egypt.

Craig

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A whole list of men I think that the clerk seems to have used the wrong year for.

FMP for #3758 Edwards - only served from April 1915. Reports his invalidity as starting at Gallipoli.image.png


Craig
 

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