Help with Quillion bayonet

[Lanners55]

Gentlemen. I would very much appreciate your views on this bayonet, clearly refurbished at some time and with the blade shortened.

Markings on the Ricasso are partly lost, the remains of the crown and ER just visible I'm told, 08

Best regards,

 

Simon

[AndyBsk]

REmington  scabbard of WW1, question is the piece was refurbished evidently as no visible of crown stamp or date stamps of the piece, looks in good condition.

[shippingsteel]

This bayonet appears to be a Factory production example which was never issued into actual service for some reason. Not every bayonet ever made is automatically a military service weapon. This particular piece did not receive a final Inspection mark on the ricasso and subsequently no acceptance date to signify issue to the military. If it is actually shorter than specification than that may well be the reason.

Cheers, SS 

[JMB1943]

The Patt. 1907 was made with the hooked quillon until nearly the end of 1913, so your bayonet predates 1914.

It properly has no clearance hole in the pommel, which was not introduced until January, 1916.

A very nice example, with a not-original scabbard.

Regards,

JMB

[JMB1943]

As  a matter of interest, what is the accurate blade length?

Regards,

JMB

[Dave66]

2 hours ago, shippingsteel said:

This bayonet appears to be a Factory production example which was never issued into actual service for some reason. Not every bayonet ever made is automatically a military service weapon. This particular piece did not receive a final Inspection mark on the ricasso and subsequently no acceptance date to signify issue to the military. If it is actually shorter than specification than that may well be the reason.

Cheers, SS 

Thanks shippingsteel,

I posted a similar Sanderson a couple of years ago, no date, only two inspection stamps…..you’ve backed up my initial suspicions of being a factory piece but not passing final inspection.

I have actually seen another Sanderson hooked quillon marked in a similar way on a dealers site some time ago…if I find it I’ll put a link in place for comparison, my example is below.

Haven’t seen any other manufacturer without a date, so a Sanderson oddity??

Dave.

 

Edit…..link added, 1907 H.Q. Sanderson with no date…..https://www.wdmilitaria.co.uk/shop.php?ps=1&pg=9#prettyPhoto

 

Edited 21 November , 2021 by Dave66

[Lanners55]

Thank you gentlemen, I very much appreciate your input. The actual blade length is 406mm

Best regards,

Simon

[AndyBsk]

Strange with british arow mark,would be not acepted into army?

[shippingsteel]

2 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

As  a matter of interest, what is the accurate blade length?

The proper blade length should be a nominal 17 inches (432mm) up to a maximum of 17 1/8 inches (435mm) as a manufacturing tolerance. This is from the LoC #14169 dated Jan 1908.

Cheers, SS 

[shippingsteel]

Dave66, regarding Sanderson Bros. & Neubold prior to the War they were just another Contractor supplying equipment to the War Department as required. Production numbers would have varied greatly between what was actually needed to fill the Government contracts so consequently you can imagine a warehouse with stockpiles of surplus awaiting unmarked to hopefully help fill the next contract when it came along.

I actually have an example of a Wilkinson hookie ER production that must have come out of storage somewhere when the war began and supplies were short upon mobilisation. It was then accepted into service with a Dec 1914 date stamped on the ricasso.!

Cheers, SS 

Edited 21 November , 2021 by shippingsteel

[Dave66]

3 minutes ago, shippingsteel said:

Dave66, regarding Sanderson Bros. & Neubold prior to the War they were just another Contractor supplying equipment to the War Department as required. Production numbers would have varied greatly between what was actually needed to fill the Government contracts so consequently you can imagine a warehouse with stockpiles of surplus awaiting unmarked to hopefully help fill the next contact when it came along.

I actually have an example of a Wilkinson hookie ER production that must have come out of storage somewhere when the war began and supplies were short upon mobilisation. It was then accepted into service with a Dec 1914 date stamped on the ricasso.!

Cheers, SS 

Thanks SS,

All fascinating stuff, 

Dave.

[JMB1943]

Lanners55,

I forgot about the “E R” cypher when I was estimating it’s date of manufacture; that suggests made between January 1908 and summer of 1910 (death of Edward VII).

Regards,

JMB

 

Edited 21 November , 2021 by JMB1943
typo

[Lanners55]

Thanks JMB, that's a great help

Best regards,

Simon

[trajan]

On 22/11/2021 at 01:02, shippingsteel said:

The proper blade length should be a nominal 17 inches (432mm) up to a maximum of 17 1/8 inches (435mm) as a manufacturing tolerance. This is from the LoC #14169 dated Jan 1908.

Cheers, SS 

Note that the official full-size specification drawing SA/319 as approved for issue to the makers 9th March 1908, gives 16.875 inches as the minimum, so 42.865, still longer than 40.6.   

Julian