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1907 bayonet ID


Wamfess

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I have a 1907 Sanderson bayonet manufacture date 6  18. I can identify all of the markings except the number stamped on the back of the handle which is 4227. Nowhere have I seen a similar bayonet with such a number as shown on the attached photo. I am a new member but a keen collector of memorabilia although my purchase of two bayonets is my first venture into arms/weapons. Can anyone tell me what this number signifies?20211101_232646.jpg.1d91a76233487a97df8ec5d1c3d2cbef.jpg

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I'm no expert but assume this is a serial number although none of my P1907 have one. I don't believe in the British Army that the bayonets were ever given the same serial number as the rifle unlike in other nations but maybe this was done in this case because of the branch of the military it was issued to?

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Thanks for the input. I have notice more markings that don't seem to exist or get mentioned on any other 1907 patterns I have looked at. They are on the upper handle. F.C. a number 7 and what could be a 2 or 4. The other side appears to have some sort of circular frank but it is very faint. Any input greatly appreciated. Photos attached.

20211102_101310.jpg

20211102_101149.jpg

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I believe the ‘circular frank’ is a Canadian broad arrow within a C property marking.

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Thanks, looking at it now I am sure you're  right, it's so hard to make it out. And going back to the 4227 number I am thinking ajwdthumper is correct about the rifle serial number. Doing some research, it seems to add up.

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I haven't been able to find any evidence that Canada added serial numbers to their P1907 bayonets. Australia does seem to have done it but usually with additional letters preceding the serial number.

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I have found one other P1907 bayonet with a serial number on it and that was described as a ceremonial bayonet. The one in this thread also appears to be chrome plated and therefore it might be that this is also a ceremonial bayonet, specially manufactured and given a serial number because of this purpose? 

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That's an interesting and very possible explanation. Thanks  to every one for the input. With the knowledge  I have witnessed so far on this forum I feel sure that someone will come up with something definite.👍

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  • 3 weeks later...

Bayonets can have a wide and varied life if you think about it. All the soldiers and people that have picked it up in its lifetime and where they've been. I think that of my example. Marked with Canadian broad arrow yet has seen Australian service and refurbed and painted with the rust preventative that we did in WW2. My theory is that it was issued to Canada in WW1 and handed back into the Imperial Ordnance depots and sent out to Australia in 1920/1921. Bought it off someone who found it in his dads shed when his dad passed away. His father held onto it and his helmet when demobbed in 1945. The guy remembers his dad using it to weed the garden.

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On 02/11/2021 at 12:15, awjdthumper said:

I'm no expert but assume this is a serial number although none of my P1907 have one. I don't believe in the British Army that the bayonets were ever given the same serial number as the rifle unlike in other nations but maybe this was done in this case because of the branch of the military it was issued to?

IIRC, as I don't have the text to hand, the 1929 Instructions to Armourers is the only mention I have seen of a GB bayonet being serial marked to a rifle, and at that after a refurbishment process...

Julian

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Ok, got the relevant references now on my computer!

The 1897 edition of the Instructions to Armourers states that bayonets are marked with consecutive numbers on that side of the bayonet-pommel facing away from the bod, but nothing more The 1912 version, as amended in 1916, makes no comment at all on the serial numbering of bayonets. BUT, the 1931 edition notes that ‘If the bayonet is very slack on the nose-cap, exchange the bayonet for a closer fitting one on another rifle on which the slack bayonet is a better fit, and then re-number the bayonets to the rifles."

Julian

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Some very interesting comments. Makes you think. It's pretty  mind boggling just thinking where it's been and who has held it. I came by it from an old lady who's late husband had it in their bedroom by the bed for as long as she could remember. She thinks it was his father's, but referred to it as 'a big knife'. She just wanted it out of the house. Maybe when she is in a little bit of a better place I will enquire  a bit about the family history and start some research. 

Thanks for the input and the interesting comments.

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Anything I find out I will of course post it here, and I am passing the bayonet over to my grandson who showed a lot of interest in it. He is actually studying military history  at Queens University. I have, after witnessing the knowledge displayed on this site given him the link. Thanks again to everyone.

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One very slight chance that F.C. and whatever comes next refers to the First Canadian Division? I wouldn't bet on it though! But the marking does not strike me as GB style.

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Thanks Trajan, I actually think it's quite likely, even if it's only because it fits in with an earlier suggestion that it was from a Australian or Canadian regiment.

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