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IGSM Medal Card Waziristan Advice appreciated


Paul Cleverley

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Advice very much appreciated on the medal card details of my great grandfather George Cleverley RASC. In addition to War and Victory medals from WW1 I believe he received the India GSM. It looks like the clasp is “Wazn” I think for Waziristan?

Of particular interest is the text on the reverse of the card.
 

1. I don’t know what A J B 104-117 signifies. Does anyone know?

2. The date stated is 18th August 1924. There was an incident in Waziristan on that date involving an ambush on the Royal Signals. Sgt Percy E Cook was killed. See below, a painting was made of it. I was curious if my G Grandfather may have been involved in some way, or the date is simply purely coincidental. I’ve requested his service records but I believe that may take 12 months. Any pointers welcome.
 

“Many from the Corps will be familiar with the Corps’ painting Frontier Ambush by Peter Archer, the original of which hangs in the Officers’ Mess at Blandford. It depicts the scene on 18 August 1924 when a vehicle carrying a small Royal Signals party from Razani was ambushed below Duncan’s Piquet in Waziristan (now part of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Province in Pakistan).”

source: https://www.royalsignalsmuseum.co.uk/on-this-day-18th-august/

best regards, Paul

24842DB1-22AD-4E21-9522-523DA6266F2F.jpeg

Edited by Paul Cleverley
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There's an older topic for this Army Form. I think the date is just a late application for an 'undisposed medal. The roll may give more info, this will be on Ancestry's UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949.

I'm not sure which number he'll be under but a search should find him. The results may pop up saying Crimean or Peninsular war which might put you off but will lead to the correct roll.

TEW

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3 hours ago, TEW said:

There's an older topic for this Army Form. I think the date is just a late application for an 'undisposed medal. The roll may give more info, this will be on Ancestry's UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949.

I'm not sure which number he'll be under but a search should find him. The results may pop up saying Crimean or Peninsular war which might put you off but will lead to the correct roll.

TEW

His BWM/VM medal roll showing he re enlisted 4/3/1919, so should have a post war service record with the MOD. Ancestry and Find My Past does not link his service number to the IGSM roll by either service number, just the medal index card. The IGSM rolls usually notes actual unit or unit attached too, but not seeing him coming up on the rolls. WO 100 / 126 / 492 which is a much larger roll with dozens of pages of RASC men. The home address on the Medal Cards for other ranks also due to GSM award.

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There's nothing on the MIC that confirms a unit or number for the IGSM & Clasp. Not seeing him on the MOD list although an exact birth date would help. Doesn't mean he doesn't have a MOD record though.

Consulting my William Spencer researchers' guide it should be IGSM 1908-35. Two possible Waziristan clasps: 1919-21 or 1921-24.

RASC would be WO100/481 for the early clasp and WO100/493 for the later, but was he RASC?

Is he applying in 1924 for the early clasp? Wouldn't it be a bit early for the later clasp as an 'undisposed of' item

WO100/483 are for issues via the India office and probably not at TNA or Ancestry.

Not sure how to manually find and trawl the 481 & 493 rolls.

TEW

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Whoops, just realised WO100/483 must be TNA! Available to download as well.

Sure I recall some IGSM were issued via the India Office and are not at TNA.

TEW

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The rolls for the 1921-24 clasp are dated 1925 and 1926. Looking in general at RASC pages it appears they were issued against original service numbers as you can see later EMT numbers written in beside names, and some discharge dates or "still serving". I'd imagine George Cleverley was already in India  and actually extended his service in 1919, rather than being discharged and then re enlisting. Also he must have served elsewhere during WW1 as he has British War Medal and Victory medal. The 1919-1921 Waziristan clasp is jumbled up with the IGSM 1919 Afghanistan NWFF roll -  its 1642 pages! I've been in there looking for RASC men attached to MGC Motors before. I'd say either clasp is more likely to be under his  EMT/43171 number, as he was renumbered before the qualifying periods.

EMT/43181 has a 1919 Afghanistan NWFF clasp so those service numbers correspond with being issued March 1919.

EMT /43985 has a Waziristan 1919-1921 clasp

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I'm finding the Spencer book complicated.

WO100/483 are Waziristan 19-21 Issues from India but gives I-20, I-46, I-65 & I-184 as the former references.

TNA only shows the former ref for WO100/483 to be I-17.

TNA only seem to have I-20 as a former reference which translates as WO100/486 which is for officers.

Not sure what became of the former refs I-46, I-65 & I-184. Can't find those at TNA but Spencer says they are/were present.

Forces War Records say:

The medals were struck in both the British Royal Mint and the Calcutta Mint in India. The main difference between the two is the claw design, which holds the medal to the ribbon, with the Royal Mint design being a little more ornate. Medals from both mints were awarded to the British and Indian Army with the location of the recipient at the time of issue being the deciding factor as to which they received.

Perhaps not all India issue rolls exist?

TEW

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