Arne Vandendriessche Posted 23 October , 2021 Share Posted 23 October , 2021 (edited) Hey, When I look at an aerial photo of Proven in Poperinge, I see a path to a pond or a well on the other side of the airport near the blekery. In it I see a small shadow, as if something had been thrown in. The path to that pond/well will not have come by walking there once. Presumably there must have been soldiers there regularly for some reason. On the path to there is a barrack. Maybe it's a washing place for soldiers? It is not indicated anywhere on older maps from before the war. So maybe it was dug out for some purpose. I'm still not sure if it's a pond. If there were broken pieces from airplanes, maybe they were dumped there? Now that well is no longer there. I could contact the farmer to ask if he knows more about it, but first I'll try here on the forum first. Attached is a clipping of an aerial photo. coordinate: 27.F.14.a.45.82 Arne Edited 23 October , 2021 by Arne Vandendriessche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Vandendriessche Posted 23 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 24 October , 2021 Share Posted 24 October , 2021 Arne The only map of Sheet 27 NE I can find is this one on the NLS system. It is dated 1918 but it covers Proven and about in the top right in "F". https://maps.nls.uk/view/101464879 I've not had much luck with F 14 but the WD of 14 Corps A&QMG (WO 95/914/4) in a list of camps dated August 1917 shows Prattle Camp at F 14 b 7 4 (Bn HQ) and Pasture Camp at F 14 d 5 3. The WD of 8 Corps A&QMG (WO 95/823/3) 17/04/1917 records that 135 Army Troops Co RE arrived for work on Water Supply and on 20/04/1917 134 Army Troops Co RE arrived for work on Water Supply. The WD of 135 ATC records that on 21/04/1917 the OC met the OC Water Supply 2nd Army to discuss the Yser Water Scheme. On 27/04/1917 work was started in (Sheet 27) F 11 c. On 01/05/1917 135 ATC was employed on the Yser Water Scheme from (Sheet 19) W 27 b to (27) F 11 c and laying pipes along the railway from (19) W 28 c 9 7 to (27) F 7 b 3 8. The WD of 134 ATC records that from 01/05/1917 to 01/06/1917 the Co worked on the reservoir at F 11 c 1 7 On 01/06/1917 135 ATC were employed laying a 4 inch main for horse watering along the railway from (27) F 8 central to F 23 d 7 0 and later ordered to make horse water points at F 5 c 9 2, other water points at F 4 d 6 3 and to erect a tank at F 11 c 2 3. As I wrote on one of your other threads every farm in the area was visited and would have been put to some military purpose. The search for water for the thousands of men and horses would have been highly important and I think that your location in F 14 a was probably part of that. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Vandendriessche Posted 25 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2021 thanks Brain, Arne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 25 October , 2021 Share Posted 25 October , 2021 1 hour ago, Arne Vandendriessche said: thanks Brain, Arne A girl at work used to call me Brain, not because I'm clever though. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Vandendriessche Posted 25 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2021 I mean Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Vandendriessche Posted 25 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2021 It's because I'm Dutch speaking. And when I read the messages again I don't immediately link to the translation of brain To me it seems like a small mistake while to you it comes across as funny. Arne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Vandendriessche Posted 25 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2021 Can a date be linked to this? These are the coordinates of the aerial photo I think maybe with the numbers all the way down? I don't find them very legible. Arne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 25 October , 2021 Share Posted 25 October , 2021 (edited) Does this show that the hole is in F 7 and not F 14. It could be Sheet 27 Square F 7 d 8 9, or F 7 d 89 14 the date could be 08/03/1918 but I do not know what 9 B 42 M are. The WD of 14 Corps A&QMG list of Units 11/08/1917 shows 135 Army Troops Co RE at F 7 b 3 2 (see above, 135 ATC were working on the Yser Water Scheme). The hole could be anything, I just thought that it was more than likely that it was something to do with water and I knew you would be interested in anything that was happening in the Proven area. Brain, I mean Brian Edited 26 October , 2021 by brianmorris547 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Vandendriessche Posted 26 December , 2021 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2021 (edited) On 24/10/2021 at 14:56, brianmorris547 said: Arne De enige kaart van blad 27 NE die ik kan vinden is deze op het NLS-systeem. Het is gedateerd 1918 maar het heeft betrekking op Bewezen en ongeveer in de rechterbovenhoek in "F". https://maps.nls.uk/view/101464879 Ik heb niet veel geluk gehad met F 14, maar de WD van 14 Corps A&QMG (WO 95/914/4) in een lijst van kampen van augustus 1917 toont Prattle Camp op F 14 b 7 4 (Bn HQ) en Pasture Camp op F 14 d 5 3. De WD van 8 Corps A&QMG (WO 95/823/3) 17/04/1917 vermeldt dat 135 Army Troops Co RE arriveerde voor werkzaamheden aan de watervoorziening en op 20/04/1917 134 Army Troops Co RE aangekomen voor werkzaamheden aan de watervoorziening. De WD van 135 ATC vermeldt dat de OC op 21/04/1917 een ontmoeting had met het 2e Leger van de OC Watervoorziening om het IJzerwaterplan te bespreken. Op 27/04/1917 werd gestart met de werkzaamheden in (Blad 27) F 11 c. Op 01/05/1917 werd 135 ATC ingezet op de IJzerwaterregeling van (Blad 19) W 27 b tot (27) F 11 c en aanleg van leidingen langs het spoor van (19) W 28 c 9 7 tot (27) F 7 b 3 8. De WD van 134 ATC vermeldt dat van 01/05/1917 tot 01/06/1917 de Co aan het reservoir werkte bij F 11 c 1 7 Op 01/06/1917 werden 135 ATC's gebruikt om een hoofdleiding van 4 inch aan te leggen voor het drenken van paarden langs de spoorlijn van (27) F 8 centraal naar F 23 d 7 0 en later werd opdracht gegeven om waterpunten voor paarden te maken bij F 5 c 9 2, andere waterpunten bij F 4 d 6 3 en om een tank te bouwen bij F 11 c 2 3. Zoals ik in een van je andere threads schreef, werd elke boerderij in het gebied bezocht en zou voor een of ander militair doel zijn gebruikt. De zoektocht naar water voor de duizenden mannen en paarden zou zeer belangrijk zijn geweest en ik denk dat uw locatie in F 14a daar waarschijnlijk deel van uitmaakte. Brian Brian, If I understand correctly, the 2nd Army of the OC Water Supply took care of the thinking and drawing of the plans for water supply. And the 135 Army Troops Co RE carried out the plans on the orders of the 2nd Army of the OC Water Supply? What are the full names of these troops and did they belong to the Royal Engineers? Arne Edited 26 December , 2021 by Arne Vandendriessche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 27 December , 2021 Share Posted 27 December , 2021 Arne Each Division had it's own Royal Engineers under the Command of the Commander Royal Engineers for that Division. There were usually three Field Companies, one each attached to the Infantry Brigades of the Division for work in the trenches. The Army Troops Companies RE came under Army Command and were used for Water Supply and other work. I have most of the 1916 War Diaries and I can not find any plans of any wells. As an example 559 Army Troops Company (WO 95/400/3) were working on a well at Vauchelles in April 1916 but there are no plans and there are some plans of water supply in the War Diary of 238 Army Troops Company (WO 95/458/3) but again no plans of wells. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 27 December , 2021 Share Posted 27 December , 2021 If the well/pond in question is this one 50.8849517, 2.6646291 then the 27.F.14.a.45.82 map reference is correct. The F.7.8.9.14 are the squares covered by the aerial photo. Any water supplies for use by troops were checked and monitored by RAMC sanitation. As the area is full of camps for troops out of the line which would include the RAMC units of each division it may get checked by each incoming division. Unless all the water supplies in this area were under the control of a mobile laboratory at Army level? Might have been fit for use for baths or laundry but not consumption, who knows? I would think RAVC would be cautious about allowing horses to drink water from unchecked sources. I've certainly seen water sources being placed out of bounds (not to be used) because of contamination. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 27 December , 2021 Share Posted 27 December , 2021 (edited) TEW The WD of the A&QMG 19 Corps WO 95/964/2 to 4 has Administrative Instructions No 52 dated 08/11/1917 and No 68 dated 18/12/1917 outlining the duties of the Water Supply Officers and mentioning the Sanitation Sections. I never realised just what a massive undertaking water supply was until Arne started this thread. I tried to find WDs for the Corps Water Supply Officers on Discovery but the only one I could find was WO 95 /1007, 1 ANZAC Corps 1917-18. The opening page describes how the Germans polluted their wells as they gave ground. The WD of 135 Army Troops Co RE, mentioned above, WO 95/546/5 papers regarding Forward Water Supply and photographs of the Haringe Waterworks. Brian EDIT I've linked Arne's other thread about water holes to this one. https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/293909-shaft-in-dodo-wood/#comment-3077893 Edited 27 December , 2021 by brianmorris547 additional info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Vandendriessche Posted 30 December , 2021 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2021 With thanks So the soldiers who made sure there was enough water everywhere were also doing the work? Arne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyC Posted 30 December , 2021 Share Posted 30 December , 2021 Here are a couple of Germans in front of an iced well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2021 Share Posted 30 December , 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, GreyC said: Here are a couple of Germans in front of an iced well. Or two couples even ….sorry, I couldn’t resist… Edited 30 December , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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