PLR Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 I am trying to find out details of the death of Martin Jennings, service no. 2071, KIA 29/10/1914. I think he was with the 4Th battalion Coldstream Guards. He was age 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 Jennings was listed as missing and death was later presumed.https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60506/images/42511_6117462_0134-00082?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=d4e9b48beca92dec33464bd79557d157&usePUB=true&_phsrc=AaS438&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=138668 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLR Posted 20 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2021 Thanks, I was told that he died in a trench which had been over run, was buried by the Germans in their cemetery and his tags returned to the British. The cemetery was retaken at some point. He is commemorated in Perth Cemetery (China Wall). If anyone has any further details of the action he was killed in that would be really helpful. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 All the records point towards 1st Bn when he died. https://www.fold3.com/image/668996217?terms=2071,jennings Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 (edited) https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/103585/m-jennings/ Worth taking a look at the details re. Grave Registration / Concentration on CWGC Edited 21 October , 2021 by BarbaraG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 The 1st Bn war diary is available for a free download (register a free account to get it for free).https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351891 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, PLR said: Thanks, I was told that he died in a trench which had been over run, was buried by the Germans in their cemetery and his tags returned to the British. The cemetery was retaken at some point. He is commemorated in Perth Cemetery (China Wall). If anyone has any further details of the action he was killed in that would be really helpful. thank you This relates to the action at Gheluvelt on that day. See: http://www.webmatters.net/index.php?id=991 “On October 29,1914 at Gheluvelt, the 1st Battalion suffered such causalities that it had no officers left and only 80 men. Four days later, after reinforcement, it had once more been reduced to no officers and only 120 men.” NB. The 4th Battalion of the Coldstream Guards was formed at Windsor on July 17, 1915 as Guards Pioneer battalion, but then became 4th Battalion soon after. Edited 20 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 He has two cards at the International Committee of the Red Cross, the first a missing persons enquiry from his mother which shows him with the 1st Battalion and missing since the 2nd November (1914). The second was raised in connection with a report received from the German authorities in 1916 recording him as Martin "Jenning" and records him with the 4th Battalion Both cards can be found here. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/292912/3/2/ The report refers to him being buried by the Germans, identification from his effects and ID tag which showed him as 4th Reserve Battalion. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/292912/698/7461/ According to the LLT the 4th Battalion wasn't even formed until July 1915, and was originally the Guards Pioneer Battalion. However it does go on to mention :- 5th (Reserve) Battalion Formed at Victoria Barracks in Windsor during August 1914 as 4th (Reserve) Battalion. 14 July 1915 : redesignated as 5th (Reserve) Battalion. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/coldstream-guards/ Hope that helps, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 It looks like he was possibly mobilized as a reservist to the 4th (reserve) battalion and then sent to the 1st battalion as a draft. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 (edited) That suggests he was sent as a battle replacement from the 4th (Reserve) Battalion and joined 1st Coldstream Guards before the action at Gheluvelt. Afternote: I see I posted simultaneously with Craig. Edited 20 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 (edited) “Between 26th and 29th October the Coldstream Guards and the Scots Guards were under relentless artillery fire that was as effective as it was persistent. Casualties were heavy and the Coldstream Guards were greatly reduced in strength. Early in the morning of 29th October the Germans attacked in strength along both sides of the Menin Road and broke through the British lines at Gheluvelt crossroads inflicting further losses on the Guards who fought with splendid determination and prevented further progress by the enemy.”The War Diary of the 1st Battalion, Coldstream Guards records: 29th October, 1914 - Gheluvelt “Held trenches. Attack by the German's beaten off at 5.30a.m. in dense mist but was successful further South, East Southeast of GHELUVELT. The result being that the Battalion trenches were shelled immediately afterwards from the right rear. A retirement appears to have been ordered and a small portion of the Battalion re-formed covering the East side of GHELUVELT village on the South side of the YPRES- MENIN road covering a battery of the Royal Field Artillery. At night Battalion withdrawn into Brigade Reserve between HOOGE and GHELUVELT.” Edited 20 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 Extracts from War Diary.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 Paul Nixons' Army Service number site would put his enlistment at some point between the 8th January 1898, (1327) and the 6th March 1899, (2521), https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/01/coldstream-guards_5632.html so unless he had signed up for the full 21 years, then a 12 year stint would see him time served by 1910/1911. However he would have the option of extending his period in the reserves for another four years, joining Army Reserve D. He was probably only a few months if not weeks away from that too being time served when Britain joined the Great War and he would have been mobilised on the 5th August 1914. The Anglo-Boer War website records that a M. Jennings appears on the Coldstream Guards Medal Roll for the Queens South Africa and Kings South Africa Medals. It doesn't however give service number or Battalion. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 Just now, PRC said: so unless he had signed up for the full 21 years, then a 12 year stint would see him time served by 1910/1911 He was time served on 11 Oct 1910 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 For those interested there is an excellent account of the desperate action at Gheluvelt here: https://www.voicesofwarandpeace.org/portfolio/the-recapture-of-gheluvelt/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 Hi PLR, Welcome to the forum A direct link to the ICRC record PA 7461 is here. From the CWGC records posted by BarbaraG if you put the map reference of 28.J.11.d.5.4 into this website you will see the place of his original burial. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLR Posted 20 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2021 Thanks everyone, this is really helpful, and confirms a lot of the family anecdotal material about him. He did serve in South Africa in the Boer War, but then returned to working as a Blast Furnace labourer in Palmers shipyard Jarrow, before being called back up for WW1. He was only there for a few months before he was killed. I think he was what was known as one of the Old Contemptables? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, PLR said: He was only there for a few months before he was killed. I think he was what was known as one of the Old Contemptables? Yes, all soldiers who deployed with the original British Expeditionary Force (BEF) between August and November 1914 (including your forebear) later became referred to as Old Contemptibles. “Emperor Wilhelm II of Germany, who was famously dismissive of the BEF, allegedly issued an order on 19 August 1914 to ‘exterminate ... the treacherous English and walk over General French's contemptible little army’. Hence, in later years, the survivors of the regular army dubbed themselves ‘The Old Contemptibles’. No evidence of any such order being issued by the Kaiser has ever been found.” Edited 20 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 (edited) Hi PLR, He would appear to have attested on 12.10.1898. Images sourced from Findmypast Regards Chris Edited 20 October , 2021 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 Image sourced from Findmypast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 I don't think it has been mentioned so far, but his Medal Index Card shows him landing in France on the 7th October 1914. Unfortunately the Battalion War Diary has just a single entry covering the period 28th September to 14th October 1914. When it then reverts to daily entries, there is bracketed entry against the 18th and 19th, when they were in billets at Hazebrouck, that a draft joined that comprised Captain G.H. Brown, Lieutenant C.J. Murray, 2nd Lieutenant The Hon V. Boscawen and 142 other ranks. A check of the 1914 Star Roll for the Coldstream Guards, (available on Ancestry only) should bring up other man who landed in France on the 7th October 1914, and if they have surviving service records it may be possible to establish if they were a draft from the 4th Reserve Battalion, where they sailed from and landed, and when they joined up with the 1st Battalion in the field. I know of at least one other who landed on the 7th - a Norfolk man, Walter Thomas Powley, (5598), who died serving with the 1st Battalion. No surviving service record but he has an entry in De Ruvignys Roll of Honour – enlisted 5 July 1904, served in Egypt 29 Sept.1906, to 23 March, 1911, then joined the Reserve and became a policeman; was called up on mobilization 4 Aug.1914; went to France in a draft 7 Oct. 1914 and died at St. Julien on the 23rd of that month, from wounds received the same day at Hooge. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 Hi PLR, 2 hours ago, PRC said: if they have surviving service records My understanding is that Martin should have a surviving service record (though possibly heavily weeded - perhaps @Coldstreamer might be able to advise) as until recently they were held by the regimental archive, so weren't effected by the fire at the central warehouse in WW2. They are now held by the MoD, so for a fee you should be able to get a copy - link. There is a help desk number here. I am not in a position to comment on the observations made in this thread. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travers61 Posted 21 October , 2021 Share Posted 21 October , 2021 I notice that both his original & re-burial was in the next grave to 2nd Lt Charles Watkin Williams-Wynn 1st Battalion Coldstream Guards. He has a full entry with grave photo on the Lives of the First World War website. 30TH OCTOBER 1914 "At 1500 hours on 28th October 1914 British GHQ, at St Omer, telephoned General Haig warning him of the contents of an intercepted message which suggested that the Germans would attack towards Geluveld at 0530 hours the following morning. On the northern side of the road the 1st Coldstream Guards were by now a very weak unit of about 300 men and had been reinforced by a Company (nominally about 250 men) of 1st Black Watch. Between them they had approximately a kilometre of front to hold. To further assist the Coldstreams a platoon of 1st Gloucesters with its Machine Gun Section was sent up and these were scattered here and there amongst the Guardsmen in an attempt to fill-in the gaps. For some reason the British had convinced themselves that the attack would come from the southern side of the Menin Road.Everybody was ready and waiting on what turned out to be a foggy morning. When the 16 Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment launched its assault it fell, not upon 7th Division but the already understrength Coldstream Guards on the northern side of the road. Making their way through the fog the Bavarians managed to get within fifty metres of the Guardsmen before being spotted. When all hell broke loose, the British found themselves the victims of defective cartridges which didn’t properly fit their rifles; then machine guns jammed. It was only a matter of time before the inevitable happened and Bavarians managed to break through the British lines". At the end of the day Charles' Battalion almost ceased to exist. https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/story/47164 full entry for Charles Williams-Wynn at Lives of the First World War https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/4911995 https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/4911995 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 23 October , 2021 Share Posted 23 October , 2021 His Coldstream papers prob won’t add much more than you can got from here already and not IMHO £30 of worth. many reservists went over on the 7th October certainly an infamous day in the regiments history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLR Posted 25 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2021 Thanks again, I thought you might like sight of this letter to his mother dated 9/11/19 from a man who was looking for his nephews burial place and discovered Pte. M Jennings burialIt also refers to other soldiers, but I dont recognise any of the names.I Letter re Martin Jennings grave written to his mother.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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