Steve Roberts Posted 20 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2021 Hi Andrew thanks for that I need to do a bit more research as I don’t really know that much .. Steve Thank you Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 (edited) Just to show the variety of routes, here are some men with close MGC service numbers but diverse history. However all of them started off in a different unit before trf to MGC 27/6/16. After that they go to different MGC units so no clues there I think? 44963 Baker attested 27/11/15 aged 18 and was trf'd to Reserve Mobilised to Herefordshire Regt 10/5/16. Trf to MGC 26/7/16 44964 Deykes attested Herefordshires aged 19. Called up 1/4/4616 Posted 3/1st Herefords then to MGC 26/7/16 44965 Hughes 44966 Addy joined the Yorkshire Regiment in 1914 before being trf'd to MGC on 26/7/16 44969 Hirst enlisted 1914 to the West Yorks and was transferred to MGC... The possibility that Hughes started of with the Herefords looks plausible Charlie Edited 21 October , 2021 by charlie962 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Roberts Posted 20 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2021 Hi Charlie I think you may be right I to think he was in the Hereford’s also , just need to try and confirm it some how ? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 20 October , 2021 Share Posted 20 October , 2021 The Museum might be able to help but I suspect his time with them would have been very brief and just UK service. Here is the link- you can go to their research page which then requires a fee if you want them to do work. I've tried looking at the British newspaper archive but no luck. However a Hereford library might hold something? Please keep us posted on your findings. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Roberts Posted 20 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2021 I will Charlie thanks very much for all your help, I will quiz my mum to see if she can remember anything else her brother may have told her. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewSid Posted 21 October , 2021 Share Posted 21 October , 2021 Charlie - apologies for using your thread without reference. Excellent data within it. Steve - Charlie has it spot on. The MGC were dragging men in from all over the place so the men around him may give a clue but more likely not. Equally, the unit he first joined or was conscripted into could be one of many. Men did not always join their local infantry unit. Ive only researched a couple of geographical areas but the enlistment units vary widely. I think the earliest he could have joined would have been 05 jan 1915 as that’s his 18th birthday. Conscription commenced form Jan 1916 where as a single man of age he would have been called up pretty quickly if fit. I have an uncle who joined the MGC winning an award which means I have his MGC unit details nailed down. He spent over a year with another unit before that and i can’t find out what it was despite a lot of research. You really need another clue. Any old family photos in the loft somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 21 October , 2021 Admin Share Posted 21 October , 2021 1 hour ago, AndrewSid said: The MGC were dragging men in from all over the place so the men around him may give a clue but more likely not. "Dragging"?? For the sake of accuracy this is the relevant A.O. concerning recruitment to the MGC Transfer of Infantry Recruits to the Machine Gun Corps. 1. A.C.I. 1545 of 1916 is cancelled, and the returns therein called for will no longer be rendered. 2. Two officers of the M.G.C. will be detailed to inspect Reserve Infantry Battalions in Commands with a view to selecting sufficient men of the necessary standard required to complete the establishment of the M.G.C. (Infantry). 3. One officer will inspect the men in Reserve Infantry Battalions in the Scottish, Northern and Western Commands, and the other officer will inspect those of the Eastern and Southern Commands and London District. 4. The inspecting officers will inform the O.C. the Reserve Infantry Battalion of the number of men selected by him, and the O.C. the unit will then immediately grant the men their 4 days' Expeditionary Force leave. 5. The O.C. the Reserve Infantry Battalion will inform the G.O.C.-in-C. in whose Command the battalion is stationed by telegram of the number of men selected by the inspecting officer. 6. The G.O.C.-in-C. the Command will inform "Forcedly (A.G. 9) London" by telegram at 5 p.m. every Saturday night of the number of men selected by the inspecting officer during the previous week when further instructions will be issued regarding the number of men to be sent to the M.G.C. 7. The men ordered to be sent to Grantham will be dealt with under the conditions laid down in A.C.I. 2098 of 1916, except that para. 1 will not apply, as the men will have already received their 4 days' leave.' The two Herefordshire men and by extension Pte Hughes as described by Charlie (allowing for the typo) above therefore appear to have been identified and selected in July 1916 using the procedure described above. They were not 'dragged into' the MGC but neither as is sometimes suggested was every soldier who was posted to the MGC a volunteer (save perhaps in the Army sense ). Pte Baker was a Derby Scheme Recruit who apparently opted for immediate mobilisation - ineligible for active service overseas until aged nineteen many were selected for the MGC to complete training as a machine gunner in the UK. On attaining age nineteen they were either posted to a unit being formed at Grantham or posted as a reinforcement to the MG Base Depot at Camiers and from there to an active service Company/Battalion. Of Interest may be this subsequent ACI Army Council Instructions, No 1589 Dated 14th August 1916 It has been represented that many men have been selected for the Machine Gun Corps who have been found physically unfit for work required of that Corps. The physical standard required for a man in the MGC is shown below, and no man should be appointed who does not attain this standard. a. General Physique. The all-round standard required as a machine gunner is far higher than that necessary for an infantry soldier. To be well developed and sufficiently strongly built to enable him to work with, and carry, a machine gun/similar weight under adverse conditions, and if necessary to double [run] or crawl with it. He must have no physical defects which will interfere with this work. b Age. Not less than 19 years, not over 35 years, but the actual age is not so important as the general physical condition of the individual. c Height. Not less than 5ft 3 in in exceptional cases. d Chest Measurement. Range of expansion not less than 3 ins. But 3 ins. Is sufficient for untrained recruits. e Eyesight. Without glasses V=6/9 with at least one eye. I couldn't possibly comment on the selection processes that prompted this ACI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Roberts Posted 21 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2021 Thanks for that , I have a photo of my grandfather in uniform but not wearing headdress unfortunately steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewSid Posted 21 October , 2021 Share Posted 21 October , 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, kenf48 said: They were not 'dragged into' the MGC but neither as is sometimes suggested was every soldier who was posted to the MGC a volunteer (save perhaps in the Army sense ). A fair clarification Ken. The MGC were no doubt in need of men, volunteers or not. Steve - perhaps consider posting the photo you never know what someone here might pick up on. Edited 21 October , 2021 by AndrewSid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Roberts Posted 21 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2021 Just been told by my uncle he was with the 2nd east lancs ?? Could that be right from Herefordshire? steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewSid Posted 21 October , 2021 Share Posted 21 October , 2021 (edited) Steve, Yes and no! If you read the link below you will see most of the E Lancs Bns were overseas by 15/16 and we know he went overseas after transfer to the MGC. The 2nd Bn was in France from Nov 14. However he could well have joined one of the second line infantry Bn that fed replacement to the E Lancs Bns. I’m afraid I don’t know enough about how the training and unit reinforcements were managed for the Regiment. In terms of could a Herefordshire man find himself in an E Lancs Regiment from enlistment. I would say yes, either by volunteering or more likely being posted where men where needed. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can help https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/east-lancashire-regiment/ Edited 21 October , 2021 by AndrewSid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Roberts Posted 21 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2021 Just been told by my uncle he was with the 2nd east lancs ?? Could that be right from Herefordshire? steve I think I have opened a can of worms ***, will keep digging thanks for info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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