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Remembered Today:

Pte 2788 Benjamin Deakin 1/7 RWR


CovKid

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Good evening. 

Pte Benjamin Deakin was killed at Ypres on 08/10/17 and I have been unable to locate a service record for him. However, some other records have been most helpful in piecing his story together. However, an anomaly has arisen which I am hoping  somebody can help me with. 

Benjamin retained his original service number and from this, it is likely that he enlisted at Nuneaton somewhere in the period covering August - September, 1914. I have a relative who enlisted in the same battalion  in November 1914 and his service number is in the 3000's so I'm fairly comfortable with the date bracket. 

Benjamin qualified for the 1914-15 Star and the medal index card says the theatre of war is France and the qualifying date is  08/12/14. It is this date which is causing confusion. 

The Battalion mobilised from Coventry in August 1914 and went to Witham, Essex  for training. The battalion war diary does not commence until 01/03/15 and the Battalion does not sail to France until 22/03/15. 

Why then does Benjamin have such an early qualifying date, given that the battalion were not in theatre until over 3 months later?  

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MIC seems to suggest 1st Bn

BWM & VM Medal Roll starts with 1RWR, then 2RWR, 16RWR and ends with 1/7RWR

???

:-) M

Edited by Matlock1418
typos
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39 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

BWM & VM Medal Roll start with 1RWR, then 2RWR, 16RWR and end with 1/7RWR

Those changes of unit are often sparked by a wounding leading to evacuation to UK and extended convalescence before return to theatre.

 

Daily Casualty Lists tell us the following:

 

Name: B Deakin
Service Number: 2788... Regiment: Royal Warwickshire Regiment, 1st Battalion... Rank: Private... Daily List: 4th August 1915 (report received 18 July 1915)... Casualty Status: Wounded...    (and by 11th July 1915 he was in UK- Chatham Military Hospital and local paper has him as a Lance Cpl)

Name: B Deakin
Service Number: 2788... Regiment: Royal Warwickshire Regiment... Rank: Lance-Corporal... Daily List: 6th September 1916... Casualty Status: Wounded...

Name: B Deakin
Service Number: 2788... Regiment: Royal Warwickshire Regiment... Daily List: 20th November 1917... Casualty Status: Missing.

 

Note that wounded lists came out about 4 weeks after the actual wounding. After 1915 the newspapers and Casualty Lists ceased to quote Battalion and just gave Regiment.

 

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
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1 hour ago, CovKid said:

Benjamin retained his original service number and from this, it is likely that he enlisted at Nuneaton somewhere in the period covering August - September, 1914. I have a relative who enlisted in the same battalion  in November 1914 and his service number is in the 3000's so I'm fairly comfortable with the date bracket. 

 

I note that Deakin was never renumbered. Since the TF was renumbered early 1917 I presume he was not a Territorial even though he ended up in a TF Bn.

There is a service record for 2784 Albert Petcher who attested 10/8/14 at Nuneaton (but was subsequently discharged underage. He attested on a 7/5 basis.

The War Gratuity shown in Soldiers Effects for Deakin confirms that he had service from as early as a Aug 1914 at least.

Charlie

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23 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

BWM & VM Medal Roll start with 1RWR, then 2RWR, 16RWR and end with 1/7RWR

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

Name: B Deakin
Service Number: 2788... Regiment: Royal Warwickshire Regiment, 1st Battalion... Rank: Private... Daily List: 4th August 1915 (report recieved 18 July 1915)... Casualty Status: Wounded...    (and by 11th July 1915 he was in UK- Chatham Military Hospital and local paper has him as a Lance Cpl)

From the edition of the Warwick and Warwickshire Advertiser dated 24 July 1915 there is reference to Lance Corporal 2788 B. Deakin who was wounded and was admitted to Chatham Hospital on the 11th July 1915. Other men of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment who were shown as admitted to Chatham Hospital on the same day are:-

10418 Pte. W. Powell wounded
2306 Pte S.Greaves wounded
1812 Pte S.F. Cole, sick
3659 Pte J. Davies, wounded
94 Lance Corporal A. Stevens, wounded
4097 Pte A. Marleham, sick
843 Pte. A. Hicks, sick
2355 Pte. S. Powell, wounded
4027 Pte W.J. Slaney, wounded
3698 Pte T. Green, wounded

There were also Royal Warwicks admitted to:-

Ampton Hospital, Bury St Edmunds, 10th July.
General Hospital, Bury St Edmunds, 10th July.
King George’s Hospital, Stamford Street, S.E. 10th July.
Norfolk and Norwich Hospital, Norwich, 11th July.
1st Eastern General Hospital, Cambridge, 11th July.
Red Cross Hospital, Sherborne, 10th July.
5th Northern General Hospital, Leicester, 11th July.

A quick run through of the Chatham admissions for the men who were wounded turned up surviving service records for Davies, Slaney and Green.

3659 John Davies was wounded on the 5th July 1915, (G.S.W. Back), while serving with the 1st Battalions. Looks like he didn't reach a Dressing Station until the 6th, was moved on to an unnumbered Casualty Clearing Station, and reached the 13th General Hospital at Boulogne - date not clear due to fire damage. With regard to the service number, he enlisted in the Special Reserve at Birmingham on the 4th October 1914, (although the 4th September 1914 appears at various points in the record with some crossed through and amended) and after going to the Depot was posted to the 4th Battalion.

4027 William James Slaney has discharge records that show he received a GSW to the left wrist on the 8th July 1915. He was subsequently discharged in March 1916 as a consequence. He had originally enlisted on the 31st October 1914 at Birmingham as a Special Reservist and was posted via the 3rd Battalion to the 1st Battalion. His initial assessment at Fort Pitt, Chatham, on arrival back in the UK appears to be splinter wound, wrist.

3698 Thomas Green enlisted at Birmingham on the 11th August 1914 for General Service, reached the Royal Warwicks Depot on the 13th, and was posted to the 4th Battalion on the 27th August 1914. From there he was posted as part of a draft to the 1st Battalion on the 2nd June 1915. He received a GSW to his left hand on the 7th July 1915. On his attestation paper his previous service had been with the 4th Battalion until six years ago. The 4th Battalion had been a Militia unit up until 1908, (i.e. 6 years earlier), when as part of an Army wide reform it was converted into a Special Reserve Battalion. Quite a few militiamen were like Thomas Green and chose not to sign up to the new obligations.

A check of the men admitted to the other hospitals may turn up other surviving service records and may have paperwork that helps firm up the likely medical evacuation route.

Our parent site, The Long, Long Trail, has this on the 3rd and 4th Battalions.

3rd (Reserve) Battalion
August 1914 : in Warwick. A training unit, it remained in UK throughout the war. Moved to Portsmouth in August 1914, then to Parkhurst on the Isle of Wight. In Dover by November 1917.

4th (Extra Reserve) Battalion
Record same as 3rd Battalion. On arrival at the Isle of Wight moved to camp at Golden Hill, Freshwater. It later relocated to Sandown.
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-warwickshire-regiment/

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

Name: B Deakin
Service Number: 2788... Regiment: Royal Warwickshire Regiment... Rank: Lance-Corporal... Daily List: 6th September 1916... Casualty Status: Wounded...

Meanwhile there is also a Casualty List in the edition of the Birmingham Daily Post dated 6th September 1916 which also shows him as wounded. He has no next of kin, or at least he hasn't given any to the Army who were alive at that point, as he is simply shown as enlisted Nuneaton.

Hope that's of interest,
Peter

 

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21 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

MIC seems to suggest 1st Bn

BWM & VM Medal Roll starts with 1RWR, then 2RWR, 16RWR and ends with 1/7RWR

???

:-) M

Thanks for this. Given my lack of experience in locating records, would you mind if i ask you a couple of questions:

What is the abbreviation MIC and is this something i can access in my research?

You mention the medal roll as giving battalion info but i could only find the index card on Ancestry. Can the medal roll be found elsewhere and where is the battalion info contained within the entry?

Regards,

John

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21 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Those changes of unit are often sparked by a wounding leading to evacuation to UK and extended convalescence before return to theatre.

 

Daily Casualty Lists tell us the following:

 

Name: B Deakin
Service Number: 2788... Regiment: Royal Warwickshire Regiment, 1st Battalion... Rank: Private... Daily List: 4th August 1915 (report received 18 July 1915)... Casualty Status: Wounded...    (and by 11th July 1915 he was in UK- Chatham Military Hospital and local paper has him as a Lance Cpl)

Name: B Deakin
Service Number: 2788... Regiment: Royal Warwickshire Regiment... Rank: Lance-Corporal... Daily List: 6th September 1916... Casualty Status: Wounded...

Name: B Deakin
Service Number: 2788... Regiment: Royal Warwickshire Regiment... Daily List: 20th November 1917... Casualty Status: Missing.

 

Note that wounded lists came out about 4 weeks after the actual wounding. After 1915 the newspapers and Casualty Lists ceased to quote Battalion and just gave Regiment.

Also:

I note that Deakin was never renumbered. Since the TF was renumbered early 1917 I presume he was not a Territorial even though he ended up in a TF Bn.

There is a service record for 2784 Albert Petcher who attested 10/8/14 at Nuneaton (but was subsequently discharged underage. He attested on a 7/5 basis.

The War Gratuity shown in Soldiers Effects for Deakin confirms that he had service from as early as a Aug 1914 at least.

Charlie

Thanks Charlie, this is a great insight and very helpful. 

Given that I lack experience in locating research sources, could i ask you the following;

I use Ancestry to locate much of my info. however, I'm not too sure where you'd find the daily casualty lists. Can you give me an idea where to access these?

Also, i have a copy of the Register of Soldier's effects obtained from Ancestry. however, it doesn't give battalion info. am i looking at a different source to you?

Regards,

John   

Edited by CovKid
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18 hours ago, PRC said:

From the edition of the Warwick and Warwickshire Advertiser dated 24 July 1915 there is reference to Lance Corporal 2788 B. Deakin who was wounded and was admitted to Chatham Hospital on the 11th July 1915. Other men of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment who were shown as admitted to Chatham Hospital on the same day are:-

10418 Pte. W. Powell wounded
2306 Pte S.Greaves wounded
1812 Pte S.F. Cole, sick
3659 Pte J. Davies, wounded
94 Lance Corporal A. Stevens, wounded
4097 Pte A. Marleham, sick
843 Pte. A. Hicks, sick
2355 Pte. S. Powell, wounded
4027 Pte W.J. Slaney, wounded
3698 Pte T. Green, wounded

There were also Royal Warwicks admitted to:-

Ampton Hospital, Bury St Edmunds, 10th July.
General Hospital, Bury St Edmunds, 10th July.
King George’s Hospital, Stamford Street, S.E. 10th July.
Norfolk and Norwich Hospital, Norwich, 11th July.
1st Eastern General Hospital, Cambridge, 11th July.
Red Cross Hospital, Sherborne, 10th July.
5th Northern General Hospital, Leicester, 11th July.

A quick run through of the Chatham admissions for the men who were wounded turned up surviving service records for Davies, Slaney and Green.

3659 John Davies was wounded on the 5th July 1915, (G.S.W. Back), while serving with the 1st Battalions. Looks like he didn't reach a Dressing Station until the 6th, was moved on to an unnumbered Casualty Clearing Station, and reached the 13th General Hospital at Boulogne - date not clear due to fire damage. With regard to the service number, he enlisted in the Special Reserve at Birmingham on the 4th October 1914, (although the 4th September 1914 appears at various points in the record with some crossed through and amended) and after going to the Depot was posted to the 4th Battalion.

4027 William James Slaney has discharge records that show he received a GSW to the left wrist on the 8th July 1915. He was subsequently discharged in March 1916 as a consequence. He had originally enlisted on the 31st October 1914 at Birmingham as a Special Reservist and was posted via the 3rd Battalion to the 1st Battalion. His initial assessment at Fort Pitt, Chatham, on arrival back in the UK appears to be splinter wound, wrist.

3698 Thomas Green enlisted at Birmingham on the 11th August 1914 for General Service, reached the Royal Warwicks Depot on the 13th, and was posted to the 4th Battalion on the 27th August 1914. From there he was posted as part of a draft to the 1st Battalion on the 2nd June 1915. He received a GSW to his left hand on the 7th July 1915. On his attestation paper his previous service had been with the 4th Battalion until six years ago. The 4th Battalion had been a Militia unit up until 1908, (i.e. 6 years earlier), when as part of an Army wide reform it was converted into a Special Reserve Battalion. Quite a few militiamen were like Thomas Green and chose not to sign up to the new obligations.

A check of the men admitted to the other hospitals may turn up other surviving service records and may have paperwork that helps firm up the likely medical evacuation route.

Our parent site, The Long, Long Trail, has this on the 3rd and 4th Battalions.

3rd (Reserve) Battalion
August 1914 : in Warwick. A training unit, it remained in UK throughout the war. Moved to Portsmouth in August 1914, then to Parkhurst on the Isle of Wight. In Dover by November 1917.

4th (Extra Reserve) Battalion
Record same as 3rd Battalion. On arrival at the Isle of Wight moved to camp at Golden Hill, Freshwater. It later relocated to Sandown.
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-warwickshire-regiment/

Meanwhile there is also a Casualty List in the edition of the Birmingham Daily Post dated 6th September 1916 which also shows him as wounded. He has no next of kin, or at least he hasn't given any to the Army who were alive at that point, as he is simply shown as enlisted Nuneaton.

Hope that's of interest,
Peter

 

Thanks Peter. This is very useful. 

Can you tell me what is the best source for accessing hospital/patient records? I do know these are quite fragmented as many records were destroyed after the war but just wondered if there was a database that provided an easy look up.

For info, Benjamin did have next of kin. although his mum passed away in June 1915, he came from a large family in Baddesley Ensor, North Warwickshire, with seven brothers and three sisters. His monetary effects were left to his youngest sister, Ellen, and his dad, George, received a dependents pension of 4/- a week - just in case you were curious.   

Regards,

John

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25 minutes ago, CovKid said:

What is the abbreviation MIC and is this something i can access in my research?

You mention the medal roll as giving battalion info but i could only find the index card on Ancestry. Can the medal roll be found elsewhere and where is the battalion info contained within the entry?

MIC = Medal Index Card

Here links to his medal rolls:

Ancestry.co.uk - UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920

Ancestry.co.uk - UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920

Regards

Russ

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29 minutes ago, CovKid said:

What is the abbreviation MIC and is this something i can access in my research?

If you hover your mouse pointer over the underlined MIC the explanation is actually given = Medal Index Card - think you have seen this card.

The small 1/ before RWR is his Battalion.

29 minutes ago, CovKid said:

You mention the medal roll as giving battalion info but i could only find the index card on Ancestry. Can the medal roll be found elsewhere and where is the battalion info contained within the entry?

Medal Roll - Also available at Ancestry or Fold 3 through subscription [not normally free access - unless you can perhaps get via your local UK library membership]

:-) M

Edit: Russ has just posted a similar answer with Ancestry links :thumbsup:

Edited by Matlock1418
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3 minutes ago, CovKid said:

Can you tell me what is the best source for accessing hospital/patient records? I do know these are quite fragmented as many records were destroyed after the war but just wondered if there was a database that provided an easy look up.

We can only dream:) Any medical records for him would have been kept with his service records, so if that is gone, so has the medical records. If he'd lived and needed to claim a disability pension then a copy would have been kept separately - what we know of as the unburnt records are in the main copies of pages held by the pension and medical services to allow them to process and adminster claims and ongoing treatment. But he didn't survive and so are not a consideration.

During the war a small sample of the medical admissions registers were kept for statistical analysis - roughly 5%. These were subsequently handed over to the National Archive, and can now be seen on FindMyPast. The institutions varied from Field Ambulances to Hospitals in the UK, Ambulance Trains and Hospital Ships. Unfortunately I did try a search of FindMyPast using the service numbers we are aware of for Benjamin Deakin and drew a blank. I should caveat that when another forum member put up the names of a patients aboard an ambulance train over a four month period in 1917, approximately 5% of the entries were found to have so jumbled up the service numbers and mis-spelled the names that identification proved nigh on impossible - and that's before you throw in transcription errors on the part of FindMyPast.

20 minutes ago, CovKid said:

For info, Benjamin did have next of kin. although his mum passed away in June 1915, he came from a large family in Baddesley Ensor, North Warwickshire, with seven brothers and three sisters. His monetary effects were left to his youngest sister, Ellen, and his dad, George, received a dependents pension of 4/- a week - just in case you were curious. 

I wondered if the death of a next of kin might be the case, hence my qualification about them being alive at that point. When he enlisted he may only have given his mother as next of kin. By the time she dies he is overseas and not really in a position to update the records. He may have ignored request to do dso while he was recovering from his wounding in 1915 - or the records office may have lost them! So when notification of him being wounded hits the relevant records office in 1916, all they would have in the way of a person to be notified in the event of death, wounding, serious accident or ill-heath is a woman who is herself already dead. The default process for that is then for the casualty lists, (from 1916 onwards), to show place of enlistment and mark it accordingly - in this case "enlt".

Cheers,
Peter

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1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

If you hover your mouse pointer over the underlined MIC the explanation is actually given = Medal Index Card - think you have seen this card.

The small 1/ before RWR is his Battalion.

Medal Roll - Also available at Ancestry or Fold 3 through subscription [not normally free access - unless you can perhaps get via your local UK library membership]

:-) M

Edit: Russ has just posted a similar answer with Ancestry links :thumbsup:

Thank you for this. I really can't believe that I missed the '1' before RWR. It's sticking out like a sore thumb. I'll have to use the excuse that I'm still recovering from Covid so there's a bit of brain fog still knocking around. ***!

Thanks again, mate. Much appreciated.  

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1 minute ago, CovKid said:

I'll have to use the excuse that I'm still recovering from Covid so there's a bit of brain fog still knocking around. ***!

No worries!  Hope your recovery completes fully.

:-) M

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51 minutes ago, PRC said:

We can only dream:) Any medical records for him would have been kept with his service records, so if that is gone, so has the medical records. If he'd lived and needed to claim a disability pension then a copy would have been kept separately - what we know of as the unburnt records are in the main copies of pages held by the pension and medical services to allow them to process and adminster claims and ongoing treatment. But he didn't survive and so are not a consideration.

During the war a small sample of the medical admissions registers were kept for statistical analysis - roughly 5%. These were subsequently handed over to the National Archive, and can now be seen on FindMyPast. The institutions varied from Field Ambulances to Hospitals in the UK, Ambulance Trains and Hospital Ships. Unfortunately I did try a search of FindMyPast using the service numbers we are aware of for Benjamin Deakin and drew a blank. I should caveat that when another forum member put up the names of a patients aboard an ambulance train over a four month period in 1917, approximately 5% of the entries were found to have so jumbled up the service numbers and mis-spelled the names that identification proved nigh on impossible - and that's before you throw in transcription errors on the part of FindMyPast.

I wondered if the death of a next of kin might be the case, hence my qualification about them being alive at that point. When he enlisted he may only have given his mother as next of kin. By the time she dies he is overseas and not really in a position to update the records. He may have ignored request to do dso while he was recovering from his wounding in 1915 - or the records office may have lost them! So when notification of him being wounded hits the relevant records office in 1916, all they would have in the way of a person to be notified in the event of death, wounding, serious accident or ill-heath is a woman who is herself already dead. The default process for that is then for the casualty lists, (from 1916 onwards), to show place of enlistment and mark it accordingly - in this case "enlt".

Cheers,
Peter

Thanks for the clarifications, Peter. It's really helped.

I was dithering on whether to subscribe to FMP but I think now that it looks like a should, 

Regards,

John

2 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

No worries!  Hope your recovery completes fully.

:-) M

Thank you. I'm getting there - slowly but surely. 

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5 minutes ago, CovKid said:

I was dithering on whether to subscribe to FMP but I think now that it looks like a should, 

Also sometimes available to access to FMP [And Ancestry too] free from local library membership.

In person when fully Covid free - and at the moment some libraries offer remote access too. :-)

Not sure if it offers completely full access but works fine in most/many situations @PRC should be able to advise in this case

:-) M

Edited by Matlock1418
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Hi @CovKid

As @Matlock1418 says, most public libraries in the UK subscribe to either Ancestry or FindMyPast, and sometimes both. Normally you have to go into the Library and use your library card to log on at one of their computers to get access. During lockdown some library services have come to arrangment with those companies to allow Library Members to be able to access from home - usually via a single account with a shared password and with a total number of fixed page views \ downloads per month. Even though the pandemic restrictions are easing off, with the need for some distancing and extra cleaning, my local library service looks likely to continue this for the foreseeable future, and I suspect that is the situation up and down the country.

So courtesy of Norfolk Public Library service I have access to FindMyPast Library Edition in the comfort of my own front room. To be honest I've not compared the range of records available, but I've not so far come across any datasets referred to on this forum as coming from FindMyPast that I've not been able to find.

2032480923_FMPOptions2021.png.eeb66bca187e2967d296a6e2b405ec48.png

Similarly since Norfolk Public Library service ditched Ancestry circa 2014 and jumped into bed with FMP, I've never once had a message that if I want to see a particular record I would need to subscribe - and I do have memories of getting that with the Ancestry equivalent. So unless anyone knows otherwise, it looks like FindMyPast Library edition comes with all the bells and whistles attached :)

So worth checking out your local library service website to see what they have on offer. And if you can get back into a Library where you live, most library services in the UK also subscribe to the British Newspaper Archive. You do get access to it via the Newspaper and Periodicals option in the list above, but that involves using the FindMyPast search engine. As the software used to convert the newspaper images into text is, to put it mildly, quirky, you are usually better off using the search engine on the BNA site.

Finally, one other sources to be aware of via your local library service - most will subscribe to services like Gale, the most important of which I find is access to The Times Digital Archive. The Times, along with The Scotsman, was the de facto place for official casualty lists to be published in full up until late spring 1917, and then regional papers would usually reprint the relevant parts of it over the following days. Even in normal times these can usually be accessed remotely.

Cheers,
Peter

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33 minutes ago, PRC said:

Hi @CovKid

As @Matlock1418 says, most public libraries in the UK subscribe to either Ancestry or FindMyPast, and sometimes both. Normally you have to go into the Library and use your library card to log on at one of their computers to get access. During lockdown some library services have come to arrangment with those companies to allow Library Members to be able to access from home - usually via a single account with a shared password and with a total number of fixed page views \ downloads per month. Even though the pandemic restrictions are easing off, with the need for some distancing and extra cleaning, my local library service looks likely to continue this for the foreseeable future, and I suspect that is the situation up and down the country.

So courtesy of Norfolk Public Library service I have access to FindMyPast Library Edition in the comfort of my own front room. To be honest I've not compared the range of records available, but I've not so far come across any datasets referred to on this forum as coming from FindMyPast that I've not been able to find.

2032480923_FMPOptions2021.png.eeb66bca187e2967d296a6e2b405ec48.png

Similarly since Norfolk Public Library service ditched Ancestry circa 2014 and jumped into bed with FMP, I've never once had a message that if I want to see a particular record I would need to subscribe - and I do have memories of getting that with the Ancestry equivalent. So unless anyone knows otherwise, it looks like FindMyPast Library edition comes with all the bells and whistles attached :)

So worth checking out your local library service website to see what they have on offer. And if you can get back into a Library where you live, most library services in the UK also subscribe to the British Newspaper Archive. You do get access to it via the Newspaper and Periodicals option in the list above, but that involves using the FindMyPast search engine. As the software used to convert the newspaper images into text is, to put it mildly, quirky, you are usually better off using the search engine on the BNA site.

Finally, one other sources to be aware of via your local library service - most will subscribe to services like Gale, the most important of which I find is access to The Times Digital Archive. The Times, along with The Scotsman, was the de facto place for official casualty lists to be published in full up until late spring 1917, and then regional papers would usually reprint the relevant parts of it over the following days. Even in normal times these can usually be accessed remotely.

Cheers,
Peter

That's really useful. Thanks very much, Peter.

I'll check out the local library and see what's what. 

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