Mappin and Webb Private Purchase Dagger/Trench Knife

[jimmy9fingers1]

 

Hi all,

 

Does anyone have any information on this Mappin & Webb private purchase push dagger/trench knife or whatever you would class it as?.

It belongs to a good friend of mine.

The pommel area looks like an Essex Imperial Yeomanry Button, so could potentially have been carried by a cavalry officer?. The actual spike/skewer is stamped Mappin & Webb (as in the jewellers), presumably a WW1 side line they were involved in?

There are nut heads along the hand guard and what appears to be a wire cutter on the cross-guard at a guess. The handle looks to be made from softwood.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim      

  

 

Edited 16 October , 2021 by jimmy9fingers1

[Joolz]

This looks distinctly home-made.

If I were to hasard a guess, I would say it's been re-purposed from a Mappin & Webb sharpening steel from one of their carving sets.

The handle has had the grooves added (rather amateurishly) with a file or rasp (they certainly aren't turned).

The guard looks like it has been repurposed from a pry bar, with added bolts, as it would be very difficult to use the 'wire cutter' (if that's what it is) in it's current position.

The scabbard is clearly repurposed. The stitching on the modification was not done by someone who works leather.

When these adaptations were done, is anyone's guess.....

Edited 17 October , 2021 by Joolz

[Joolz]

There you go, Mappin & Webb carving set from 1881, with the identical sharpening steel.

Whether your dagger was built for fun, for actual use, or to deceive, is another issue altogether....

[jimmy9fingers1]

Thanks for your thoughts guys, it's been done pretty well and certainly has quite some vintage about it, 

It's not actually my item, but interested me as i'd not seen another. And nothing the same, that i could find on the net.

best wishes,

 

Jim  

[Joolz]

Jim,

You're unlikely to see another one, as it's undoubtedly a true one-off, put together in someone's shed, with basic tools and few skills (eg. running stitch to sew the scabbard).

Here's the basis for the guard, an old flat pry bar/nail puller.

[jimmy9fingers1]

Fair play, it looks well made to me, it's a solid thing, whoever made it certainly used there ingenuity in constructing it from relatively common components then and it certainly wasn't made yesterday. Could the scabbard be constructed from a modified bayonet frog?, it has that kind of appearance to me.  Could the scabbard be constructed from a modified bayonet frog?, it has that kind of appearance to me.   

Edited 17 October , 2021 by jimmy9fingers1
error

[Joolz]

Most likely an 1888-type British bayonet frog or something like that.

Problem with these things is, it could have been made anytime in the past 100 years using 'found' components. It's when people put £1000 price tags on them and claim they are 'original' that the alarm bells start to ring....

[Dave66]

Well done joolz,

as imperial units were disbanded after the end of the second boer war, this thing, IF PERIOD, would date to the turn of the century….interesting piece, thanks for sharing Jim.

Dave.

 

[jimmy9fingers1]

Thanks chaps, an 1888 frog. thought it looked vaguely familiar, (my 1888 bayonets both have the leather home guard frogs, although I'm going off topic), so guessing 1888 frog would be of a similar period to the Mappin and Webb skewer.

I didn't realise Imperial Units where disbanded after the Boer War,

I'm also guessing the pry bar/nail puller is of a similar vintage also

It's been in a private collection for quite some years, not 120 though haha, so guess we'll never know the exact story of the piece, Joolz like you say. Thanks for putting

the jigsaw pieces together, it's been interesting to learn what components it was constructed from.    

   

 

[Dave66]

Adding a bit to joolz’s comment, and possibly supporting the boer war period, Frog looks like a General Service Mk2, introduced in 1899 for the P1888.

strap removed and repurposed.

Dave.

 

[jimmy9fingers1]

Thanks Dave66,

I wonder what the notch on the handguard is for then, just presuming this is a Boer war period item?

[Joolz]

They had nails (and pry bars) back in the days of the Boer War, assuming this was cobbled together with components gathered from that era. It's a Frankenstein, put together by an amateur, from found objects.

Its age is as much a matter of conjecture as its functionality. I can't see how you would use that notch, in its present position, for any efficient purpose. Without dismantling the whole thing and using it as a pry bar again.

I'm also ignoring the anachronism of a 'trench knife' supposedly from a conflict over a dozen years before the trenches of WW1.

[jimmy9fingers1]

haha jolly good Joolz, good point (excuse the bad pun) and guess it's not really a knife either what with it having no edge. Wouldn't have posted it, knowing it was outside of WW1 period. Just has that look to it

 

      

Edited 18 October , 2021 by jimmy9fingers1

[free1954]

my hat is off to the guy who bent that flatbar. I;ve broken a few of them in my time, they are hard steel.

[Joolz]

Yes, these things are hardened so you'd have to anneal it first, which you would have to do anyway to drill the holes for the bolt heads. If I were making this, I'd get the torch out and bend it hot.