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Remembered Today:

Flight Sub Lieutenant John Hoare


ForeignGong

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Hi

Just watched a doco from Ocean Wreck Investigation regards German U-boats around the UK.

UC-66 they claim was the only U-boat sunk in WW1 by a plane.

The pilot was Flight Sub Lieutenant John Hoare. His plane suffered numerous hits from MG fire as he attacked according to the doco

and he pressed home the attack with 4 100lb bombs.

I can't find any foreign awards to him and a quick LG search came up empty.

Not sure if they gave his correct name or not but does anyone have anything on him being awarded a British decoration?

Appreciate any info.

Peter

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If the attack by Hoare and Forsyth was on 21 August 1917, then Hoare's DSC, notified in the Gazette of 20 July 1917, was clearly not for this effort.

I have it that UC-66 was sunk on 27 May 1917 after having been attacked by Flt. Sub-Lieut William Louis Anderson and CPO John Frederick Tadman in Curtis H.8 'Large America' flying boat 8656; the flying boat was hit by machine gun fire from the U-boat.  Anderson received the DSC - the notification in the same Gazette as Hoare's - while Tadman received the Conspicuous Gallantry Medal, also Gazetted on 20 July 1917, his citation reading:

C.P.O. Mech., 2nd Gr., John Frederick Tadman, O.N. 271984 (Ch.).
For conspicuous gallantry in climbing out on the wing of an aeroplane to plug a leak in the radiator.  He remained in this position for a period of twenty minutes, thus
enabling the aeroplane to return safely to her base.

Graeme

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Hi Peter, 

The other chaps have answered your question. However, if you are interested in the perception at the time of the number of U-boats destroyed then do look up the Internet Archive for Hallam's "Spider Web" (pseudonym 'PiX') for a more atmospheric account of the submarine hunting. (Am on my mobile so can't access the link here to share). 

Derry/Londonderry chap R Frederick Lea Dickey obtained bars to his DSC for such actions that have been subsequently discredited as decisive operations. 

For another perspective on the submarine hunting perhaps consider the unfortunate Limerick chap Cleeve. His Large America conducted a near-perfect hunting/killing operation in conjunction with surface vessels, yet his American observer has the equivalent of a triumphal arch erected in his honour and the equivalent of tickertape parade whilst they struggled to decide upon a mention in despatches for Cleeve. (His family made a small fortune on tinned and powdered milk products and so had limited sympathies in Ireland as to their overall wartime balance sheet). 

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Mate,

I must have just seen the same show.

He claimed two hits on UC 66 which sunk her.

I did wonder how two small bombs could do that, other then crack the presure hull and she sunk after submerging?

But the show shows the boat wreck cracked up (present day) possibly after setting off a Mine stowed on board (UC 66 was a Mine U Boat)

But I did read she had already laid her mines, so why would she have any mines on board unless she hadn't laid them all?

Which they didn't explain either.

All in all the show seamed half full or half empty with the wrong man/aircrew who sunk the boat they found?

The U Boat Net shows

27 May 1917 - Bombed and sunk on May 27, 1917 north of Round Island, Isles of Scilly, by RNAS Curtis H.12 flying boat No. 8656 piloted by William Anderson. A corresponding wreck was located in 2009. 23 dead

 

Loss reassessed in 2013 by Innes McCartney. Anderson was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for the attack. He would later become an Anglican bishop.

Previously recorded fate
Sunk on June 12, 1917 by depth charged from HMT Sea King, followed up by the explosion of her own mines at 49°45’N 5°10’W. This explanation requires an excessively long patrol length.

 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker
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  • 2 months later...

I would be interested to get details of where to find the 'doco from Ocean Wreck Investigation' relating to this incident, if anyone can point me towards it please.
My connection to this is that Flight Sub Lieutenant John Hoare was my grandfather and my understanding is that he was the pilot of the aircraft involved and part of its four man crew together with Anderson, Tadman, and Forsyth(?).

Thanks.   

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  • 2 months later...
On 06/01/2022 at 20:53, Charles Hoare said:

I would be interested to get details of where to find the 'doco from Ocean Wreck Investigation' relating to this incident, if anyone can point me towards it please.
My connection to this is that Flight Sub Lieutenant John Hoare was my grandfather and my understanding is that he was the pilot of the aircraft involved and part of its four man crew together with Anderson, Tadman, and Forsyth(?).

Thanks.   

Hello Charles. I have a rather intriguing signature of a JH? Hoare from a special document from 1918 in Alexandria Egypt. I don’t suppose you have any knowledge of a time spent there in May 1918 or thereabouts. It would solve a mystery and create a huge story if there were to be any sort of link. If not that’s fine but worth a shot in the dark. 
cheers. John

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6 hours ago, JCCambridge said:

Hello Charles. I have a rather intriguing signature of a JH? Hoare from a special document from 1918 in Alexandria Egypt. I don’t suppose you have any knowledge of a time spent there in May 1918 or thereabouts. It would solve a mystery and create a huge story if there were to be any sort of link. If not that’s fine but worth a shot in the dark. 
cheers. John

Hello John. I'm not aware of my grandfather J.E.A.Hoare having been in Alexandria at the end of the war, but I have very little knowledge about him other than him being based in the Scillies at the time of the action described. I think it unlikely that he would have been posted to Alexandria. 
Best, Charles

 

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I don’t suppose you have his signature. This would decide it for certain. Only if you want. Thanks. There was a small RAF or RFC contingent who were there for training. They would have been the top guys at the time. Cheers. John

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His AIR 76 file is downloadable (for free at the moment, if you register) but from a quick look at it it doesn't appear that he was anywhere near the Med in 1918.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8272893

Interesting record - and it includes some entries up to the mid-30s, which is unusual.

 

EDIT there are also a couple of Admiralty files downloadable -  the info is repeated in the AIR 76 but the writing is easier to read.

Edited by pierssc
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On 31/03/2022 at 22:20, Charles Hoare said:

Hello John. I'm not aware of my grandfather J.E.A.Hoare having been in Alexandria at the end of the war, but I have very little knowledge about him other than him being based in the Scillies at the time of the action described. I think it unlikely that he would have been posted to Alexandria. 
Best, Charles

 

Hi Charles. I agree totally that it’s unlikely but there have been many surprises as I check out these signatures despite the passage of time. I am clutching at straws I know but here is the original signature that I need to identify at bottom right. Looks like JHHoare but may be other initials. So here goes. If you can check it would rule out your RAF pilot. Please let me know. Most of the other were in some way senior or key persons surviving the torpedoed and sunk HMT Leasowe Castle on which there was a RAF contingent following training in Egypt. Thanks. John 

BA8314AC-3391-4D55-94BF-CC6AE55BC5BF.jpeg

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 02/04/2022 at 10:12, JCCambridge said:

Hi Charles. I agree totally that it’s unlikely but there have been many surprises as I check out these signatures despite the passage of time. I am clutching at straws I know but here is the original signature that I need to identify at bottom right. Looks like JHHoare but may be other initials. So here goes. If you can check it would rule out your RAF pilot. Please let me know. Most of the other were in some way senior or key persons surviving the torpedoed and sunk HMT Leasowe Castle on which there was a RAF contingent following training in Egypt. Thanks. John 

BA8314AC-3391-4D55-94BF-CC6AE55BC5BF.jpeg

Hi John

I've checked with family but I'm afraid I can't locate any examples of my grandfather's signature. Nor aware we aware of any story of him surviving a sinking ship, which I think would have made it into the family folklore. So I regret that it's unlikely to have been him.

Good luck in your quest.

C.  

 

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3 minutes ago, Charles Hoare said:

Hi John

I've checked with family but I'm afraid I can't locate any examples of my grandfather's signature. Nor aware we aware of any story of him surviving a sinking ship, which I think would have made it into the family folklore. So I regret that it's unlikely to have been him.

Good luck in your quest.

C.  

 

Thanks. Cheers. John 

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Charles…You have put a lot of effort into this so I have to express my gratitude for your help. That is exactly the sort of help we need to explore these stories in detail. It is an excellent forum. Best regards. John

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