Armband

[mancpal]

What may not have come across in my last post is this. As i view the soldiers right wrist (OP) I see a cuff protruding by perhaps a half inch before a distinctive line. Between there and just below his overseas chevrons appears to be some form of armlet which I believe doesn't have a hard edge at its upper edge due to the light source coming from above though I think is still distinguishable as a border. This brought about my previous point regarding position of chevrons above the cuff.

Perhaps the lower cuff is his shirt cuff though that doesn't show on his left arm where his tunic sleeve appears somehow less constricted (perhaps by the absence of an as yet unidentified armlet/cuff).

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, mancpal said:

What may not have come across in my last post is this. As i view the soldiers right wrist (OP) I see a cuff protruding by perhaps a half inch before a distinctive line. Between there and just below his overseas chevrons appears to be some form of armlet which I believe doesn't have a hard edge at its upper edge due to the light source coming from above though I think is still distinguishable as a border. This brought about my previous point regarding position of chevrons above the cuff.

Perhaps the lower cuff is his shirt cuff though that doesn't show on his left arm where his tunic sleeve appears somehow less constricted (perhaps by the absence of an as yet unidentified armlet/cuff).

Simon

Yes I understood that you see things differently.  We’ll just have to disagree Simon, I don’t see the same thing at all, and the close up provided has removed all thought in my mind that there was a second armlet.  That fact also coincides with my earlier thought that I can’t in any case personally think of any circumstances for two armlets on the same arm, one lower, and one higher.  No doubt others can view and just form their own opinion, it’s not really something that can be resolved unanimously I suspect.

Edited 10 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[mancpal]

My last post was an attempt to explain better my previous post and not intended as proof positive of anything, I think I mentioned earlier I don't remember seeing such a band/armlet previously. Disagreement tends to be an objection to something purported to be a fact.  An expression of opinion to hopefully further the debate was my intention. I'd welcome further interpretation unless the above post is fact.

Simon

[mark holden]

I am in Simon's camp that there is some form of band on the soldiers bottom right sleeve, I understand that there is a spit view on the presence of a band or not but I would offer that it is the armband in light blue used to denote wounded servicemen on convalescent leave. I understand wrong sleeve and wrong position but it would not be the first breach of  regulation in a Great War picture.

 

Mark

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, mark holden said:

I am in Simon's camp that there is some form of band on the soldiers bottom right sleeve, I understand that there is a spit view on the presence of a band or not but I would offer that it is the armband in light blue used to denote wounded servicemen on convalescent leave. I understand wrong sleeve and wrong position but it would not be the first breach of  regulation in a Great War picture.

 

Mark

Mark, I entirely accept differences of opinion, and the view is difficult which of course stimulates the debate further.  However, I would take some small issue with your comment about the light blue band.  As I understand it the light blue band was intended to be worn on the upper arm of greatcoats only (this has been posted about quite a few times in the forum I think) and convalescent soldier’s were obliged to wear hospital blue until they were fit enough to be posted to the “command depots”, at which point they were then to wear drab khaki SD again (and without any blue arm band).  Once there, they were in effect working up to full fitness and so undergoing phases of physical conditioning training. 

NB.  The blue band on greatcoats was to ensure the wounded were recognised as of that category even when wrapped up in greatcoats and SD caps, thus hiding most of their hospital blue if seated or in a wheelchair and wrapped in a blanket around their legs.

Edited 11 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[mark holden]

Good evening Frogsmile. I don’t disagree but from memory Stephen Chambers excellent photographic work shows an officer in his jacket wearing the blue armband. ‘Tis but a point of view.

 

regards

 

 

Mark

 

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, mark holden said:

Good evening Frogsmile. I don’t disagree but from memory Stephen Chambers excellent photographic work shows an officer in his jacket wearing the blue armband. ‘Tis but a point of view.

 

regards

 

 

Mark

 

The wearing of hospital blue was required of soldiers by regulation, but for some reason officers were not similarly obligated, in part perhaps because their uniform belonged to them and in part because it was long standing protocol that they conduct themselves as gentlemen and were permitted to dress accordingly.  In any case that is rather straying from the subject photo, which is of a soldier seemingly hale and hearty (no sign of hospital blue) and quite contentedly posing with a lady in what looks like a suburban garden.

Edited 11 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[mancpal]

What material would the upper (undisputed I assume) armband be made of? It appears quite thick whereas the (disputed one) seems to be a much finer cloth. Whether Mark is on the right track or not, what fabric would the hospital greatcoat armlet be made of?

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, mancpal said:

What material would the upper (undisputed I assume) armband be made of? It appears quite thick whereas the (disputed one) seems to be a much finer cloth. Whether Mark is on the right track or not, what fabric would the hospital greatcoat armlet be made of?

Simon

The same as the hospital blue itself, was intended I imagine, but photographs seem to suggest that whatever came to hand was also used providing it was the right colour.  Undoubtedly there was a degree of pragmatism.

Edited 11 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[mancpal]

Sorry, I meant the upper armband on original photo looking quite thick.

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

31 minutes ago, mancpal said:

Sorry, I meant the upper armband on original photo looking quite thick.

Simon

I don’t know the colour for absolute sure Simon, but the cloth was usually woollen.  There is a detailed thread on armlets in the forum and there might be a special one for trench mortar instructional staff mentioned, but I cannot recall.  Another possibility, I suppose, is canary yellow, as was usually worn by the skill at arms instructional staff at Etaples (Bullring).

Edited 10 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE