Mystery solved?

[NCADMAN]

Finally found this old photo of my Grandfather Arthur Harry Cadman. We now now where and when he was in the army, though not what he was doing there in 1919.

Thanks for everyone's help so far, I was really grateful and astonished at the responses.

Is there anything else I can find out, bearing in mind it was after the war?

[FROGSMILE]

Part of the Rhineland occupation force.  France, Britain, Belgium and the USA each had a zone.  Britain’s was centred around Cologne.  The force was gradually reduced until it constituted a small Army titled the British Army on the Rhine (BAOR).  This was the first version, another BAOR was created from an occupation force after WW2 also.  During the occupation the units maintained order, guarding key points, and carried out training, with sport playing a large part in keeping the troops busy and healthy.  Most of the war-raised units had gone by the early 1920s leaving just regular army battalions.

Edited 1 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[MaureenE]

There is an Official History

The Occupation of the Rhineland 1918-1929 by Brig-Gen Sir JE Edmonds, originally written 1944,  available in a reprint edition

The Occupation of the Rhineland 1918-1929 Naval & Military Press.

 which in turn is available on the Ancestry owned pay website fold3, located in Military Books (locate through the Search)/Germany.

Maureen

[kenf48]

Douai is a city in the Pas de Calais France it has nothing to do with the occupation of the Rhineland

I suspect the photograph is a memento  of the cadre that remained before the Battalion was broken up

The LLT notes the 49th (West Riding) Division was resting at Douai from December 1918 prior to the Division being broken up. The Division was finally broken up at the end of March.   I'm having trouble reading the title of the Battalion but suspect it is the 1/4 KOYLI - a Territorial formation as evidenced on your previous thread.  Perhaps you could blow the text up? EDIT; on closer inspection definitely the 1/4

The war diary shows the 1/4 was in Douai on the 10th April and it notes a jolly boys outing, or lorry trip of 30 officers and 24 other ranks to Lille on that date - I wonder?  (I count about seventy+ in the photo but it appears to include the CO).  Apart from that this period in Douai included 'Training and Educational' which would cover a multitude of sins!

The diary ends at the end of May 1919. Men would have been leaving throughout this period, miners for example were swiftly disembodied,the first group going on the 26th December but it appears your man remained to the end.  I can find no reference to drafts but other units were recieving drafts post -Armistice i.e. outside the defined period for the Campaign Medals.

 

[kenf48]

You may be interested in this famous painting in the IWM Collection

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/20883

[FROGSMILE]

You’re quite right Ken, mea culpa, I didn’t spot the glaring Douai reference, it must have been a long day.  Thanks for pointing it out.  Given the centuries that we had a garrison on the pas de Calais it’s quite ironic that we kept troops there as a necessary way-station for so long after the Armistice.  Unsurprising though, given the length of time necessary to draw down stores and infrastructure after 5-years of industrial scale warfare.

Edited 2 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[kenf48]

Rue de Arleux is still there but looks to have been modernised

https://www.google.fr/maps/@50.3628225,3.0815057,3a,75y,55.24h,93.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1su4Bufsx6uwKR877fHzuEDQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

Rue de Arleux is still there but looks to have been modernised

https://www.google.fr/maps/@50.3628225,3.0815057,3a,75y,55.24h,93.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1su4Bufsx6uwKR877fHzuEDQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

 

 

Certainly looks a lot like the same building on the left in subject group photo.

[kenf48]

 

 

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Certainly looks a lot like the same building on the left in subject group photo.

I wondered about that, but I can't see the columns on Google

Anyway a more thorough perusal of the war diaries shows a draft of 100 arrived on the 6th December 1918. 

If he was in this draft and if this was the first time in theatre for these men they would not have received any medals which is probably why we can't find him in the Rolls as noted by Peter in the previous post.

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Only one of the two buildings on the left seems to have survived.

The furthest seems to have been rebuilt, the nearest (No. 51) has the same classical windows with a lighter brick inset at the top, bottom and half way up. They are crowned by a semicircular cartouche:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.3629835,3.081641,3a,75y,187.94h,87.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sD82J82tMn5ve6ZWFlcOxbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The tall building on the right also survives (No.68), now sporting a satellite dish which probably doesn't appear in 4ge 1919 shot.

Edited 2 October , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

[FROGSMILE]

17 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 

 

I wondered about that, but I can't see the columns on Google

Anyway a more thorough perusal of the war diaries shows a draft of 100 arrived on the 6th December 1918. 

If he was in this draft and if this was the first time in theatre for these men they would not have received any medals which is probably why we can't find him in the Rolls as noted by Peter in the previous post.

 

I was way too focused on his omission from the medal rolls and so automatically assumed he arrived in the occupation force post Armistice, and so hence I missed the critical Douai provenance.  It makes complete sense that all the garrisons post Armistice received their share of new men to keep them up-to-strength whilst the demobilisation schedule for veterans continued unabated.

Edited 3 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

25 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

 

Brilliant work Dai, I’m deeply impressed by the way you have accurately manipulated the old and contemporary images to create such compelling evidence.

Edited 2 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Brilliant work Dai, I’m deeply impressed by the way you have accurately manipulated the old and contemporary images to create such compelling evidence.

Thank you Frogsmile.

It's always pleasing to see blends of old and new.
Everything is transient, humans generally more transient than buildings or landscapes
Douai suffered badly in 1940, so that could explain a lot of the more modern buildings in that location.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Thank you Frogsmile.

It's always pleasing to see blends of old and new.
Everything is transient, humans generally more transient than buildings or landscapes
Douai suffered badly in 1940, so that could explain a lot of the more modern buildings in that location.

Yes it’s extraordinary what these places have suffered, they take on a character all of their own.  If they could speak….

[kenf48]

Yes brilliant, I'm convinced, and as impressed as no doubt the present residents of Rue d'Arleux, Douai would be. 

It is amazing how these French towns have been rebuilt after two wars.

[NCADMAN]

Sorry to have taken so long replying, I hadn't realised the thread was so long.

Many thanks to all who have contributed.