Queen's (Royal West Surrey) but what date?

[58 Div Mule]

Just acquired a postcard from a well know auction site. A young serviceman of the Queen's (RWS) Regt.

Any idea on the date, I was originally thinking WW1..... but maybe early 1920's?

58 DM.

[FROGSMILE]

Difficult to be 100% definitive really, the cap doesn’t appear to be the 1922 pattern and he’s not wearing the collar badges that became universal around that time, nor the regiment’s new style badge either.  Given what seems to be a 1905 cap early war or just pre war seems more likely.  The curved shoulder title that he wears, QUEEN’S, replaced W.SURREY in 1900 and of course he wears a 1908 web belt from the Mills infantry equipment.

Edited 1 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[58 Div Mule]

Thanks for your help @FROGSMILE .

58 DM.

[FROGSMILE]

1 minute ago, 58 Div Mule said:

Thanks for your help @FROGSMILE .

58 DM.

Glad to help, it’s a super photo that oozes a sense of earnest endeavour by the sitter.  Thank you for posting it.

[Tobias]

On 01/10/2021 at 16:48, FROGSMILE said:

Difficult to be 100% definitive really, the cap doesn’t appear to be the 1922 pattern and he’s not wearing the collar badges that became universal around that time, nor the regiment’s new style badge either.  Given what seems to be a 1905 cap early war or just pre war seems more likely.  The curved shoulder title that he wears, QUEEN’S, replaced W.SURREY in 1900 and of course he wears a 1908 web belt from the Mills infantry equipment.

By the way, there is no such thing as 1922 pattern- it is known as New Specification (NS) pattern. And I know what you mean there, the peak doesnt seem really big enough to be NS

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Tobias said:

By the way, there is no such thing as 1922 pattern- it is known as New Specification (NS) pattern. And I know what you mean there, the peak doesnt seem really big enough to be NS

Yes I was aware of that Tobias, and have used the term in the past here on the forum.  It’s just convenient to refer to 1922, as it coincided with re-cut (more closely tailored) SD jackets and the universal adoption of collar badges, plus the wearing of scarlet sashes by SNCOs with SD for the first time (they had done so with KD for many decades, so it brought things in line). Thus the cap change was a part of that entire package of reforms intended to smarten soldiers dress to a standard usual with peacetime regulars and signal a shift away from the more utilitarian trench style wear.  Overall there had been some nostalgia for the smarter scarlet and blue of pre-1914 and so as a compromise the old style uniform was retained for political reasons in places like India and Canada.  Incidentally there’s no such thing as 1905 pattern cap either and the supply chain nomenclature was entirely different.  Nor was there such a thing as a Kilmarnock bonnet, as the knitted pork pie shaped forage cap is often called.  Historians tend to use different terms to quarter-masters, but the use of dates often helps people’s interpretation and puts matters into a context that they can understand.

Edited 5 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE