Mons Star

[Guest JIMEDWARDS]

Have Medal with following inscription. 11552 L.CPL. F.G.CROSS. SOM:L.I.

I beieve it is the Mons Star and was given to my son by his grandfather F.W.Cross (my wife's father), with no precise information as to which member of his family it belonged to. I had assumed that it belonged to his father, FRANCIS CHARLES CROSS (Whom this group kindly and expertly identified KIA Regina Trench area 21 Nov 1916. However he was in the Royal Berks and my son has looked under the microscope at the above inscription and it is DEFINITELY a G NOT C. Any ideas on tracking procedure would be very much appreciated.

[Paul Reed]

Well, as you may have guessed he was in the Somerset Light Infantry; I am sure they only had the 1st Bn in France in 1914, so he would have served with them at Le Cateau, Aisne, near Armentieres, and then at Plugstreet Wood.

Best place to research him are on the Medal Index Cards at Kew - a Pal might be able to help with this?

[jim_davies]

There is a F G Cross on the CWGC site with the following details:

L/clp, 11552 7th Somerset Light Infantry, died 28 feb 1916.

http://www.hostu24.co.uk/cwgcsearch/detail...casualty=439889

Jim

[Guest JIMEDWARDS]

Went on the CWGC site and he died on 28 Feb 1916, buried Bard Cottage Cemetery near Boezinge. It appears he was in the 7th Bn SLI. How do I find out where this Bn was at the time of his death?

[jim_davies]

The main site will help you with where the battalion was at this time. Off hand I can't think of any major actions taking place for the 20th (Light) at this time.

The medal you hold is to Frederick George Cross of Bedminister, Bristol.

Jim

[Guest Bill NEWMAN]

Medal numbers are not always the easiest thing to decipher and I may be slightly off mark however. The service number suggests a fairly early involvement in the Great War. If L /cpl Cross was a Somerset from the outset he probably have been a member of the 1st battalion arriving in France later on in 1914. A further examination of the medal concerned will help. If it has 1914-15 in the centre it is not a MONS STAR but a 14/15 star. The 1914-1915 Star was awarded to personnel who had served in any theatre of war (not India) between 5 Aug 1914 and 31 Dec 1915, but who had not received the 1914 Star. Approximately 2,366,000 were awarded. This medal should always be accompanied by the British War Medal and Victory Medal.

A check of the medal index card held at the Public Record Office will give a date of entry into theatre of war and allow determination to some degree of the battalion he first served in. If we can identify your man as 1st Battalion I have considerable research available and can assist with an indication of likely war history. I would be pleased to do so. Please e mail me off forum and I can progress your research should you wish to do so.

The 7th ( Service ) Battalion Somerset Light Infantry arrived in France on 24th July 1915 as part of 61st Brigade.

As far as the 28th February 1916 is concerned the 7th Battalion were in the line in the Ypres salient South of Lancashire farm. The regimental history states " The first four days in the front line in the salient cost the battalion 3 killed and 16 wounded. The trenches were water logged and there were no dug outs of any description for officers and men. Only company HQ,s had a certain amount of shelter from the weather , the rest had to stick it sitting on the fire steps up to their knees in water when they were resting ."

In September this year a book about the 7th battalion SLI is being published . See AMAZON. The book is called FORGED BY FIRE and gives an excellent history of the battalion.

I hope this helps you

Regards Bill

[Guest Hill 60]

If it has 1914-15 in the centre it is not a MONS STAR but a 14/15 star.

Just to add to Bill's comments;

The vast majority, if not all, of the 1914 Stars (Mons Star) to infantry regiments included the battalion number on the reverse.

Jean (the better half) has a 1914 Trio to a member of the RGA who died of wounds. The 1914 Star doesn't have a battery number on the reverse, just RGA, so I assume that it was only infantry regiments that had this extra piece of info included.

[Paul Reed]

The vast majority, if not all, of the 1914 Stars (Mons Star) to infantry regiments included the battalion number on the reverse.

Jean (the better half) has a 1914 Trio to a member of the RGA who died of wounds. The 1914 Star doesn't have a battery number on the reverse, just RGA, so I assume that it was only infantry regiments that had this extra piece of info included.

That's not stictly true; in my experience at least 10%+ of 1914 stars do not have the battalion shown on them. This was sometimes because they were a later issue, and because some regiments did not show the battalion at all and a soldier had transferred to that unit and the medal was issued by their record office.

No Corps have the sub-unit shown on the Star.

If Jim's medal (above) is a 1914 Star, then his man must have been 1st SLI, wounded and then transferred to the 7th. Who were holding the Boesinghe sector of trenches towards the Yser canal at this time, I believe - probably not far from Yorkshire Trench. 20th (Light) Division took over this sector from 49th (West Riding) Div in around January 1916.

[Guest JIMEDWARDS]

Feel a bit of a Prat. Contact with son confirms that it is NOT Mons but 14-15 Star. This would now "enable" the 7th Bn and thus confirm the CWGC register. Is there a 7th Bn war diary in existance?

[Guest Bill NEWMAN]

Jim,

The service number of L/Cpl Cross makes me suspect that he was in France late 14 -early 15 and then transferred to the 7th battalion SLI. I may well be wrong but numbers close to this man were being killed when the 1stbattalion were in the Ploegsteert wood area. Further research will confirm.

There is a war diary for the 7th Somersets. If you set out exactly what you require will ensure that you receive a full response. I know a man who can !

Regards Bill

[Guest JIMEDWARDS]

Thanks Bill.

Genealogical research leads me to believe that F.G.Cross was my father in law's cousin, and the medals were given to him by his uncle. I am sure that there was another medal in addition to the 14-15 Star but sadly this has gone missing. F.G Cross was born 1896 so would have been 18 ish at the outbreak of the war. I took a print-out from the CWGC web site of the register entry for him at BARD COTTAGE CEMETARY.

In Memory of

F G CROSS

Lance Corporal

11552

7th BN. Somerset Light Infantry

who died on

Monday 28 February 1916

This is followed by directions to reach the Cemetary and a short historical note. The main features being that it is near Boezinge and for much of the war the front faced the Germans across the Yser canal. I would like to know what action (if any) lead to his

death on the 28th. Was he killed outright on that day or wounded earlier and died on that day or died from illness ? Precisely where was the 7th Bn at the time?

Would much appreciate it if "your man" could come up with some information.

Regds. Jim Edwards

[jim_davies]

Soldiers Died shows

:Killed in Action

born-Bedminister

enlisted-Bristol

Jim

[BMoorhouse]

Jim,

Bill Newman gave me a call regarding your relative.

I hope the following is of interest - an excerpt from my forthcoming book - 'Forged by Fire: the battle tactics and soldiers of a ww1 battalion : the 7th Somerset Light Infantry' due for publication in Sept 2003. (My apologies for the layout - I have simply cut and pasted it from my manuscript) It should give you some idea of what was going on shortly before Frederick Cross died - he was one of the two men killed on the working party.

Ypres canal

The 7th Battalion moved into the front line on Wednesday 23 February 1916. The positions were a series of shell-hole posts linked by shallow trenches from south of a position called Lancashire Farm running in a rough line to a position called Grouse Butt. Conditions were appalling. The ‘trenches’ lacked proper drainage and the men would often have to sit on the fire steps with their legs immersed up to their knees in icy cold water. There were no dug-outs in the forward positions at all, and only the company headquarters were allowed any form of shelter.

The support and reserve positions were along the canal bank. The canal itself was virtually empty, with puddles of stagnant water in the bottom. The tow paths that ran along either side had an embankment and it was in this that the dug-outs had been built. Lieutenant Henry Foley wrote:

Both banks of the canal were honey-combed with dug-outs and shelters of all descriptions,

none of which to my knowledge were anything like shell proof; but of course after the

memories of the front trenches they seemed perfect havens of peace.

Because of the conditions the men would be rotated between the forward and support/reserve positions with much greater frequency notwithstanding the increased danger they were exposed to during reliefs. Lieutenant Andrews:

The trenches there offered far less cover than we had been accustomed to, and movement from

one place to another was usually accomplished by doubling oneself in half from the waist.

This uncomfortable proceeding was rendered all the more necessary from the fact that there

were some deadly snipers in the trenches opposite us. It was on our arrival at Ypres that the

wearing of steel helmets became compulsory, and until we got used to them and grew to

appreciate the protection they afforded, many were the sighs for the old time comfort of a

‘balaclava’. Here we knew what it was to get shelled from the back as well as the front, and

the blame fell inevitably on our own Artillery until we learned that it was the Bosche, who were

potting at us from the sides of the salient.

Even the few dugouts were rustic. Major Preston-Whyte described the scene on one occasion:

Raining hard. Company headquarters consists of three iron sheets overhead and a running

stream 18 inches deep under foot, and an old pig trough to sit on. Self and two subalterns in

occupation. One of us always has to remain and look after pig trough, while the other two go

round the line, or else it would float away and someone else would get hold of it.

Lieutenant Foley is left at company headquarters while I and my other sub go round

the line. He takes this opportunity to dig out our rations and get something to eat. Rations

consists of one loaf bread, one tin butter, etc. I do my round and return. ‘Well Foley’, I say,

‘What about some grub?’ ‘Right’, he replies, with his mouth full, and starts looking round.

‘Where is the bread?’ I ask. ‘Now where did I put it’, he says. I look about and see the bread

on top of the iron in the rain. I point this fact out to him with a few choice remarks. ‘Oh, I am

sorry’, he says, reaching up for it and knocking the butter off the pig trough into the stream.

‘Thanks,’ I remark, ‘I hope at any rate you have not opened the bully yet’.

During the first four days at the front, the battalion was subjected to constant bombardment for the first two. Before it was relieved three men had been killed and ten injured. The next few days were spent with the battalion providing night-time working parties. Under the guidance of the Royal Engineers, the men worked at draining the front-line positions, a constant and insoluble problem in Flanders because of the low-lying land. Two more men were killed doing this work.

The battalion diary is fairly bland - it simply says;

28th February 1916. Enemies artillery still active.

Night time working parties 2 killed 4 wounded.

I hope that this helps.

Brendon Moorhouse.

[Guest Bill NEWMAN]

Jim,

Having spoken to Brendon, the book really is good ! <We both suspect earlier membership of the 1st Battalion. You are missing at least two medals - The British war and Victory. If you really want to find out more about this Somerset you should arrange research at the PRO.

Do you by any chance have any photographs of this man. If you would like me to I will check the Bristol papers around time of death to see what can be located.

Regards Bill

[Guest JIMEDWARDS]

I'll take you up on your kind offer of a search of the Bristol newspapers. If I'm not pushing my luck could you also have a look for Francis Charles Cross (Royal Berks) who was KIA 21/11/1916. Delighted with the information so far received - Brendon has sold at least one book.

Regds. Jim Edwards

[Guest Bill NEWMAN]

Jim,

It would be a pleasure. Please leave it with me and I will come back to you when I have finished the search

Regards Bill

[Guest Bill NEWMAN]

Jim,

I had a quick check today of the Bristol Times and Mirror for 1st quarter of 1916 and I could find no reference. This doesn,t mean there is nothing there however I was pressed for time and I found the paper to be a little script heavy with few photograqphs.

Regards Bill

[Guest JIMEDWARDS]

Many thanks Bill for trying. There are many dissapointments when tracking relatives and ancestors, but you shure get a buzz when you unearth something!

Regds. Jim Edwards

[Guest rufybear999]

Hi All,

Have just come across this topic. Frederick G Cross was my great uncle.

If Mr Edwards is out there - or if anyone has his contact details - please get in touch.

Many thanks, Paulette