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Uniform identification


rfishbobs
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Hi

Apologies if i am in the wrong place here.  My uncle recently died  and whilst going through some old files   we came across and old photo that  using limited photoshop knowledge managed to improve the quality a little.  We know that one of his brothers died in WW2 on a merchant ship  35 miles from Rockall.  But this photo looks much older than WW2  any assistance in identifying the timeframe and  the uniforms would be very much appreciated.

 

 

EPSON001 (1).jpeg

EPSON001.jpeg

EPSON001 (1).jpeg

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All three in full dress uniform are from either an English, or Welsh infantry regiment without Royal appellation, as indicated by the white collar and cuffs (‘facings’).  Almost certainly a father at centre with his two sons dressed as drummers and who probably enlisted as boy entrants going by their youthful appearance and the fact that they’re already in possession of a good conduct badge each, thus indicating two years of service without any disciplinary infringement (inverted stripes on their left cuffs).  

The collar badges would indicate the regiment but I can’t quite make them out.  Many northern county regiments fell into the non Royal category and were I a betting man I’d consider a punt on the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, or perhaps East Lancashire Regiment.  Can you point to any County connection that might offer a clue?  The drummers tunics were distinguished by laced shoulder wings, with lines of the red and white lace, known as ‘crown and inch’, running down front and rear of each arm and also tracing the seams running from each shoulder on the back down to the skirt edge.

NB.  The father is wearing a plain tunic and bears a campaign medal on his left breast.  I’d estimate the date of the photo to be around 1905+/-  It’s very likely that the two drummers would have served during WW1.  Drummers were trained as soldiers, unlike bandsmen, and learned to sound bugle and fife (military flute) as well as the beating of drum.  As a whole the photo suggests a family whose members were a part of the regular army and probably living in military married quarters (housing provided by the army).

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Edited by FROGSMILE
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Wow, thats great word fail me how good you and many other people on this forum are.  Will speak with my elderly Aunt later today to see if she has any more information.  I believe my uncle was born in Hythe in Kent.

 

Many thanks

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18 minutes ago, rfishbobs said:

Wow, thats great word fail me how good you and many other people on this forum are.  Will speak with my elderly Aunt later today to see if she has any more information.  I believe my uncle was born in Hythe in Kent.

 

Many thanks

The Kent connection is a good clue and suggests that the Regiment shown might be the Buffs (East Kent) Regiment, one of the oldest English regiments in the British Army.  Examination of the father’s collar badge through a magnifying glass would definitely reveal the Regiment I think.  The collar badge took the form of a prancing horse between 1882 and 1896 and then a dragon after that.  Identifying which will help to corroborate an approximate date, which might be older than I first thought.  The curved front to the father’s collar opening and the ladies dress style (fashion) might indicate as early as the 1890s.

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Edited by FROGSMILE
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FastFoto_0034_a.jpg.cabf73aad6de9b8c8f7716f567758e73.jpg it may be a complete red  herring, but we also found this photo.  it looks like a post card on the back (carte postage/no words but it is stamped bride lance photographs, Paris Peace.

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30 minutes ago, rfishbobs said:

FastFoto_0034_a.jpg.cabf73aad6de9b8c8f7716f567758e73.jpg it may be a complete red  herring, but we also found this photo.  it looks like a post card on the back (carte postage/no words but it is stamped bride lance photographs, Paris Peace.

That is the same man as the taller drummer boy on the left of the family photo.  He is a sergeant (3 stripes) and his cap badge might be one of several: East Surrey, East Yorkshire, Cheshire, or Worcestershire.  Given the Kent connection with the South of England, East Surrey might be the more likely.  Unfortunately all four regiments had white facings to their tunics in the 1890s.  The photo is typical for the WW1 period.  The annotation “Paris Peace” suggests that it’s a celebratory survivors portrait taken in Paris some time after the Armistice of November 1918.

Collar badges were initially star shaped, but later changed to shields.  It will confirm the regiment in the earlier photo if they can be matched with what the father is wearing.

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Edited by FROGSMILE
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