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Britsh POW on/about Dec. 15, 1916 on board a Swedish steamer. Taken by a submarine


Felix C
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2 hours ago, Felix C said:

entdeckten wir auf dem kleinen Promenadendeck des Dampfers einige weibliche Passagiere. Alle vorhandenen Doppelgläser, ja sogar die Fernrohre am Geschütz wurden für diesen langersehnten Anblick nutzbar gemacht.

Hahaha

"we discovered some female passengers on the small promenadedeck of the steamer. All available binoculars, yes even the telescope on the gun, were utilized to capture this long-desired sight"

 

Looks like Thule Line sailed from Gothenburg with the ss' Thule, Thorsten, Balder and Bele "every wednesday and saturday"

newcastle.jpg.b0d86319a3571eba9cc279bb52815534.jpg

 

Edited by JWK
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3 hours ago, JWK said:

Hahaha

"we discovered some female passengers on the small promenadedeck of the steamer. All available binoculars, yes even the telescope on the gun, were utilized to capture this long-desired sight"

 

Looks like Thule Line sailed from Gothenburg with the ss' Thule, Thorsten, Balder and Bele "every wednesday and saturday"

newcastle.jpg.b0d86319a3571eba9cc279bb52815534.jpg

 

Sailed Wed. Dec 13 and stopped Friday Dec. 15

Edit. scratch the above as Vinya island is just outside of Gothenburg so stopped the same night as sailing.

Edited by Felix C
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There is a Cox and Co. compiled and HMSO published "List of British officers taken prisoner in the various theatres of war between August 1914 and November 1918" republished by Naval & Military press which has officers by unit and date missing. So that should be the next stop. The date being crucial. 

I am basing it on this photo made of one page from the book: http://ww1photos.com/Pages/POWOfficers/OfficersPOWPage18ul.pdf

Edited by Felix C
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There is little in British press. Best I could find is

submarine.jpg.367398fff15863f9b91eadf5d49e4c39.jpg

There is the instance of a Swedish ship being stopped by a German warship, rather than by a submarine, in Dec 1916, in that area

It does not help you , but I had a similar incident of the Briotish taking  a man bound for Ireland , having been sent by Roger Casement from Germany (part of Caement's Irish Brigade). It was believed that the man had been shot by the British, but I was able to find him. The page I have on McGoey has some references to the British departments involved, which may or may not help

Assuming your man was a spy, then he is going to be difficult to find in British records. From what you hae so far, there is the suspicion that the Germans knew he was on that ship

 

 

 

 

 

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Maybe the Swedish steamer in question was the "Thorsten" ?  (If Newcastle and Sunderland are interchangeable, like Brussels-South airport which actually is in Charleroi, some 50km away...)

Sailed Wednesday 13th, arrived Friday 15th, will depart again Saturday 16th.

 

thorsten.jpg.0c2dfbc8b278a6d355f4c1e1f5c6c93f.jpg

 

thorsten_4.jpg.e6bb543235d075f5ec9d6cc0eaa42a2a.jpg

http://kommandobryggan.se/lloyd/thorsten.htm

Edited by JWK
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2 hours ago, JWK said:

Maybe the Swedish steamer in question was the "Thorsten" ?  (If Newcastle and Sunderland are interchangeable, like Brussels-South airport which actually is in Charleroi, some 50km away...)

Sailed Wednesday 13th, arrived Friday 15th, will depart again Saturday 16th.

 

thorsten.jpg.0c2dfbc8b278a6d355f4c1e1f5c6c93f.jpg

 

thorsten_4.jpg.e6bb543235d075f5ec9d6cc0eaa42a2a.jpg

http://kommandobryggan.se/lloyd/thorsten.htm

I think it is 980 miles or so from Gothenburg to Newcastle upon Tyne. At 10knots or so that is 4 days and a few hrs. Using this http://ports.com/sea-route/newcastle-harbour,united-kingdom/port-of-goteborg-gothenburg,sweden/

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I think it is 980 miles or so from Gothenburg to Newcastle upon Tyne. At 10knots or so that is 4 days and a few hrs. Using this http://ports.com/sea-route/newcastle-harbour,united-kingdom/port-of-goteborg-gothenburg,sweden/

I think you have picked the wrong sea distance calculator Felix C, its about 485 nautical miles from Goteborg (Gothenburg) to Newcastle-upon-Tyne just over two days steaming at 10 knots.

Tony

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2 hours ago, MerchantOldSalt said:

I think it is 980 miles or so from Gothenburg to Newcastle upon Tyne. At 10knots or so that is 4 days and a few hrs. Using this http://ports.com/sea-route/newcastle-harbour,united-kingdom/port-of-goteborg-gothenburg,sweden/

I think you have picked the wrong sea distance calculator Felix C, its about 485 nautical miles from Goteborg (Gothenburg) to Newcastle-upon-Tyne just over two days steaming at 10 knots.

Tony

Thanks.  I relied on the software. Classic error. 

Edited by Felix C
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Hello Everyone to update this, Used ancestry.com to search their "All UK, British Officer Prisoners of War, 1914-1918" and found the following:

December 15
C H Blake  2nd Lt. Wiltshire Regiment

December 20
C H Windrum Lieutenant
J A Hollis  Lieutenant 

December 21
G M B Portman  Capt. London Regiment
D W Davis  2nd Lt.

December 23
A C McCuish  2nd Lt. Cameron Highlanders
W L Back   Lt. Canadian Infantry

December 26
F N Insoll 2nd Lt. RFC

December 28
J R Kay  2nd Lt. Cameronians (Scottish Rifles)

January 1 
A H G Barr  2nd Lt.   9 South African Horse
S G Inglesby   Lt. as above
 

Hollis and Insoll are RFC and downed behind the lines. I have my doubts any of the others are the individual in question. I am more inclined to think it was a retired officer traveling from Sweden to the UK. Do not see the Prince conversing with jr. officer.

 

Edited by Felix C
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C H Blake is Charles Henry Blake, commissioned 15 Nov 1916 from HAC

b 18/11/1893

Appears captured near Ransart, Belgium

So not him

image.png.3d42b1dfa8fc0a6cd4ddd6460a65237b.png

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Thanks Corisande. 

I went through all the CIV ledgers in the grandeguerre.org site. 7500-7999. Nothing to arouse suspicion. The Submarine KTB is the best approach now. 

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No help at all but why the fixation on him being an army officer, he could just have well been a naval officer.

Charlie

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Hello Charlie2,

Purely sheer numbers, are on the side of the non-naval as more army officers were captured than naval.  I originally thought merchant, then naval, then army. Now back to retired officer of some sort traveling in civilian clothes. All based on what came up in searches. You know like the famous Sherlock Holmes dictum, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." hahahaha. Maybe the character I am seeking is as fictional as SH.

Edited by Felix C
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Hi Felix

I have it in the back of my head that the PoWs taken by the German Navy on the high seas were recorded by the German Admiralty and reported to the RC seperately and not to the RC in Geneva - possibly Danish RC ? The online records of the ICRC are only those sent by the ZNB of the Prussian Ministry of War.

Charlie

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