Britsh POW on/about Dec. 15, 1916 on board a Swedish steamer. Taken by a submarine

[JWK]

2 hours ago, Felix C said:

entdeckten wir auf dem kleinen Promenadendeck des Dampfers einige weibliche Passagiere. Alle vorhandenen Doppelgläser, ja sogar die Fernrohre am Geschütz wurden für diesen langersehnten Anblick nutzbar gemacht.

Hahaha

"we discovered some female passengers on the small promenadedeck of the steamer. All available binoculars, yes even the telescope on the gun, were utilized to capture this long-desired sight"

 

Looks like Thule Line sailed from Gothenburg with the ss' Thule, Thorsten, Balder and Bele "every wednesday and saturday"

 

Edited 20 September , 2021 by JWK

[Felix C]

3 hours ago, JWK said:

Hahaha

"we discovered some female passengers on the small promenadedeck of the steamer. All available binoculars, yes even the telescope on the gun, were utilized to capture this long-desired sight"

 

Looks like Thule Line sailed from Gothenburg with the ss' Thule, Thorsten, Balder and Bele "every wednesday and saturday"

 

Sailed Wed. Dec 13 and stopped Friday Dec. 15

Edit. scratch the above as Vinya island is just outside of Gothenburg so stopped the same night as sailing.

Edited 20 September , 2021 by Felix C

[knittinganddeath]

From Erzähler von Westerwald/Hachenburger Tageblatt, 29 December 1916

https://hwk1.hebis.de/zeitungen-hlbrm/periodical/pageview/1949320

[Felix C]

There is a Cox and Co. compiled and HMSO published "List of British officers taken prisoner in the various theatres of war between August 1914 and November 1918" republished by Naval & Military press which has officers by unit and date missing. So that should be the next stop. The date being crucial. 

I am basing it on this photo made of one page from the book: http://ww1photos.com/Pages/POWOfficers/OfficersPOWPage18ul.pdf

Edited 20 September , 2021 by Felix C

[corisande]

There is little in British press. Best I could find is

There is the instance of a Swedish ship being stopped by a German warship, rather than by a submarine, in Dec 1916, in that area

It does not help you , but I had a similar incident of the Briotish taking  a man bound for Ireland , having been sent by Roger Casement from Germany (part of Caement's Irish Brigade). It was believed that the man had been shot by the British, but I was able to find him. The page I have on McGoey has some references to the British departments involved, which may or may not help

Assuming your man was a spy, then he is going to be difficult to find in British records. From what you hae so far, there is the suspicion that the Germans knew he was on that ship

 

 

 

 

 

[Felix C]

^^^that one came up often in search returns.  German perfidy is good news. 

[JWK]

Maybe the Swedish steamer in question was the "Thorsten" ?  (If Newcastle and Sunderland are interchangeable, like Brussels-South airport which actually is in Charleroi, some 50km away...)

Sailed Wednesday 13th, arrived Friday 15th, will depart again Saturday 16th.

 

 

http://kommandobryggan.se/lloyd/thorsten.htm

Edited 20 September , 2021 by JWK

[Felix C]

2 hours ago, JWK said:

Maybe the Swedish steamer in question was the "Thorsten" ?  (If Newcastle and Sunderland are interchangeable, like Brussels-South airport which actually is in Charleroi, some 50km away...)

Sailed Wednesday 13th, arrived Friday 15th, will depart again Saturday 16th.

 

 

http://kommandobryggan.se/lloyd/thorsten.htm

I think it is 980 miles or so from Gothenburg to Newcastle upon Tyne. At 10knots or so that is 4 days and a few hrs. Using this http://ports.com/sea-route/newcastle-harbour,united-kingdom/port-of-goteborg-gothenburg,sweden/

[MerchantOldSalt]

I think it is 980 miles or so from Gothenburg to Newcastle upon Tyne. At 10knots or so that is 4 days and a few hrs. Using this http://ports.com/sea-route/newcastle-harbour,united-kingdom/port-of-goteborg-gothenburg,sweden/

I think you have picked the wrong sea distance calculator Felix C, its about 485 nautical miles from Goteborg (Gothenburg) to Newcastle-upon-Tyne just over two days steaming at 10 knots.

Tony

[Felix C]

2 hours ago, MerchantOldSalt said:

I think it is 980 miles or so from Gothenburg to Newcastle upon Tyne. At 10knots or so that is 4 days and a few hrs. Using this http://ports.com/sea-route/newcastle-harbour,united-kingdom/port-of-goteborg-gothenburg,sweden/

I think you have picked the wrong sea distance calculator Felix C, its about 485 nautical miles from Goteborg (Gothenburg) to Newcastle-upon-Tyne just over two days steaming at 10 knots.

Tony

Thanks.  I relied on the software. Classic error. 

Edited 21 September , 2021 by Felix C

[Felix C]

Hello Everyone to update this, Used ancestry.com to search their "All UK, British Officer Prisoners of War, 1914-1918" and found the following:

December 15
C H Blake  2nd Lt. Wiltshire Regiment

December 20
C H Windrum Lieutenant
J A Hollis  Lieutenant 

December 21
G M B Portman  Capt. London Regiment
D W Davis  2nd Lt.

December 23
A C McCuish  2nd Lt. Cameron Highlanders
W L Back   Lt. Canadian Infantry

December 26
F N Insoll 2nd Lt. RFC

December 28
J R Kay  2nd Lt. Cameronians (Scottish Rifles)

January 1 
A H G Barr  2nd Lt.   9 South African Horse
S G Inglesby   Lt. as above
 

Hollis and Insoll are RFC and downed behind the lines. I have my doubts any of the others are the individual in question. I am more inclined to think it was a retired officer traveling from Sweden to the UK. Do not see the Prince conversing with jr. officer.

 

Edited 26 September , 2021 by Felix C

[corisande]

C H Blake is Charles Henry Blake, commissioned 15 Nov 1916 from HAC

b 18/11/1893

Appears captured near Ransart, Belgium

So not him

[Felix C]

Thanks Corisande. 

I went through all the CIV ledgers in the grandeguerre.org site. 7500-7999. Nothing to arouse suspicion. The Submarine KTB is the best approach now. 

[charlie2]

No help at all but why the fixation on him being an army officer, he could just have well been a naval officer.

Charlie

[Felix C]

Hello Charlie2,

Purely sheer numbers, are on the side of the non-naval as more army officers were captured than naval.  I originally thought merchant, then naval, then army. Now back to retired officer of some sort traveling in civilian clothes. All based on what came up in searches. You know like the famous Sherlock Holmes dictum, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." hahahaha. Maybe the character I am seeking is as fictional as SH.

Edited 27 September , 2021 by Felix C

[charlie2]

Hi Felix

I have it in the back of my head that the PoWs taken by the German Navy on the high seas were recorded by the German Admiralty and reported to the RC seperately and not to the RC in Geneva - possibly Danish RC ? The online records of the ICRC are only those sent by the ZNB of the Prussian Ministry of War.

Charlie

[Felix C]

Hello Everyone,

Wish to add a bit more information to this topic. I asked over at Uboat.net regarding U66's War Diary and was advised the gentleman's name is not mentioned. 

The steamer stopped was the Ingeborg and the mystery guest is described as an English Army officer, specifically a Captain. "Hauptman".

A Stuss indeed. 

Will post again should I find something more.

[knittinganddeath]

Ah, my favourite mystery of the GWF returns! :-D

Poor Ingeborg. She was stopped in January 1917 as well (maybe the Germans got very suspicious about her because of the English captain?) and forced to toss 700 mail bags. A few weeks after that initial report, it was claimed that the mail bags contained contraband telephones for the trenches ("skyttergravstelefoner").

Also, with the ship's name I found more in the Norwegian archives. The man's name is said to be Huss (hahaha, there you go, rhymes with Stuss...), he had served at the front but been in Sweden for about a year. He had taken the train to Göteborg from Stockholm the evening before the ship set sail.

Edited to add: Having looked through Red Cross POW cards and not found anyone called Huss, I wonder if his name might have been something like Hughes.

Source: https://urn.nb.no/URN:NBN:no-nb_digavis_tidenstegn_null_null_19170102_8_1_1

Am happy to translate more later if you like, please let me know.

Edited 10 November , 2021 by knittinganddeath

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, knittinganddeath said:

I wonder if his name might have been something like Hughes.

...rhymes with Stews!

[Felix C]

1 hour ago, knittinganddeath said:

Ah, my favourite mystery of the GWF returns! :-D

Poor Ingeborg. She was stopped in January 1917 as well (maybe the Germans got very suspicious about her because of the English captain?) and forced to toss 700 mail bags. A few weeks after that initial report, it was claimed that the mail bags contained contraband telephones for the trenches ("skyttergravstelefoner").

Also, with the ship's name I found more in the Norwegian archives. The man's name is said to be Huss (hahaha, there you go, rhymes with Stuss...), he had served at the front but been in Sweden for about a year. He had taken the train to Göteborg from Stockholm the evening before the ship set sail.

Edited to add: Having looked through Red Cross POW cards and not found anyone called Huss, I wonder if his name might have been something like Hughes.

Source: https://urn.nb.no/URN:NBN:no-nb_digavis_tidenstegn_null_null_19170102_8_1_1

Am happy to translate more later if you like, please let me know.

 Wonderful News!  I will go searching through that Cox & Gibbs list on Ancestry.com and see what results. 

Many thanks. 

 

[Felix C]

Is this translation correct? 

English officer taken prisoner from Swedish ship.

The submarine was well informed.

During the Swedish steamer Ingeborg's journey from Gothenburg, England a few days ago an event occurred, - writes Dagens Nyheter "- which in wide circles has attracted embarrassing attention, not least because it seems to confirm how carefully organized the German intelligence service is Just outside the Swedish territorial border, "ingeborg" was stopped by a German submarine, which demanded the extradition of an English officer named Huse. The English officer, who had previously served at the front, but who had now spent about a year in Sweden, was quite rightly also in question. The evening before the ship departed from Gothenburg, he had come from Stockholm to Gothenburg by train to board the boat. The captain of the Swedish ship had to obey evil and extradite the Englishman, who was thus taken prisoner.

Edited 10 November , 2021 by Felix C

[knittinganddeath]

12 hours ago, Felix C said:

The English officer, who had previously served at the front, but who had now spent about a year in Sweden, was quite rightly also in question.

"befandt sig ganske rigtig ombord" = was indeed on board

 

12 hours ago, Felix C said:

The captain of the Swedish ship had to obey evil and extradite the Englishman

Sorry, I laughed really hard at this one. "maatte lystre ordre og utlevere engelskmanden" = had to obey orders and hand over the Englishman

Edited to add: the mistake is probably a misreading of "ordre" as "onde," which does mean evil.

 

Also, more details!

The officer was of Swedish descent/origin, his surname was Huss (not Huse) and he had been gassed at the front.

Source: https://urn.nb.no/URN:NBN:no-nb_digavis_stavangeraftenblad_null_null_19170106_26_5_1

Edited 11 November , 2021 by knittinganddeath

[corisande]

Nice when we can get a result. He is Lt Thomas Huss of 3rd Welsh Regt ... now the challenge is to find more

Edited 11 November , 2021 by corisande

[corisande]

 

Spouse Elsa Maria Af Trolle-Afzelius

Father Charles Hjalmar HUSS

Mother Catalina MINUTO

Children Charles  Richard

Birth 17 Nov 1882 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England. Registered as Tomaso Carlo S Huss

Death 13 Sep 1944 Jersey, Channel Islands

Residence 02 Apr 1911 Penarth, Glamorgan, Wales

there is an extensive Ancestry family tree on this link - click

Edited 11 November , 2021 by corisande

[corisande]

There is certainly a ; lot about him, though I have not found out his "mission"

This picture was taken in 1918 while he was in Celle Schlosse.

 

Edited 11 November , 2021 by corisande