Marston Montgomery

[mbriscoe]

Just transcribing Marston Montgomery St Giles.  Plenty of WWI names but starts with these two names.

1899

PTE.

THOMAS J. WOOD, R.M.L.I, DARDANELLES, AFRICA, RUSSIA.

1908

SERGT.

JOHN W. BECK, 60TH. RIFLES, FRANCE, EAST AFRICA.

I presume Thomas J Wood was killed in WWI in the Boer War but Dardanelles and Russia?  Unless he was old enough to have served in the Crimean War in the army.

Not sure about John Beck, can't find anything about him either.

Has anyone looked at St Giles and come up with any ideas?

 

[mbriscoe]

I am thinking now that these "Served" which is why they do not show up the CWGC lists.  The date must be the date they joined up, the WWI names have similar dates and do not show on CWGC.

[horatio2]

There is no RMLI man named Thomas WOOD with 1899 register number. Thomas WOOD Chatham/18969 RMLI is a 'possible'. He died of flu on 16 Dec 1918 while serving in the Aegean with 3rd RM Bn. but there is no "AFRICA, RUSSIA" link that I can see.

[PRC]

35 minutes ago, mbriscoe said:

1899 PTE. THOMAS J. WOOD, R.M.L.I, DARDANELLES, AFRICA, RUSSIA.

On the 1901 Census of England and Wales there is a 19 year old Lance Corporal Thomas J. Wood, a "Navy Man" and born Cubley, Derbyshire, who is recorded in barracks at East Stonehouse, Devon. He is on page 28 of an institutional return and Mrs C is already glowering at me that we are late to be out the door, so unless someone else can check it out, I'll take a look later. From the map Cubley appears to be a neighbouring village.

Cheers,
Peter

[horatio2]

11 minutes ago, PRC said:

9 year old Lance Corporal Thomas J. Wood, a "Navy Man" and born Cubley, Derbyshire, who is recorded in barracks at East Stonehouse, Devon.

That man is Thomas Joseph WOOD, Plymouth/10016 RMLI. Enlisted September 1899, served to pension in October 1920 and then joined the RFR until 1932 when he was discharged at the age of fifty.   https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7784303  Plenty of WW1 sea service in DAMS, AMC, etc.

 

[mbriscoe]

25 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

There is no RMLI man named Thomas WOOD with 1899 register number. Thomas WOOD Chatham/18969 RMLI is a 'possible'. He died of flu on 16 Dec 1918 while serving in the Aegean with 3rd RM Bn. but there is no "AFRICA, RUSSIA" link that I can see.

It is common for the people doing the War Memorials to get details wrong, they would be relying on what told by relatives.

The four names at the top died but the rest seemed to have served.  They were trying to be clever with the inscription but just confuses things.

 

 

[mbriscoe]

32 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

That man is Thomas Joseph WOOD, Plymouth/10016 RMLI. Enlisted September 1899, served to pension in October 1920 and then joined the RFR until 1932 when he was discharged at the age of fifty.   https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7784303  Plenty of WW1 sea service in DAMS, AMC, etc.

 

Confirms that, as I thought, the date is the date they enlisted.

The IWM WMR only use the information on the memorial but good to have a bit of background to help make sense of it especially in a case like this one.

 

 

 

[Scritch]

Hi,

My interpretation is that the four men listed at the top were the ones who lost their lives: William E. Skidmore, Samuel Morris, John T. Copestake and George Wood. The others who are listed are the ones who served and survived (with year of enlistment).

Hope that helps and best wishes

Rich

Edited 17 September , 2021 by Scritch

[mbriscoe]

27 minutes ago, Scritch said:

Hi,

My interpretation is that the four men listed at the top were the ones who lost their lives: William E. Skidmore, Samuel Morris, John T. Copestake and George Wood. The others who are listed are the ones who served and survived (with year of enlistment).

Hope that helps and best wishes

Rich

 

Yes I came to that conclusion.  I checked a few of the more unusual names and they were listed as having died.

Just a very strange layout and wording of the memorial.

 

 

[Scritch]

Agreed! Incidentally, and just for interest, the war memorial at St. Andrew's Church in the nearby village of Little Cubley has the same design and similar wording.

 

[PRC]

If it adds anything the 1891 Census of England & Wales has the 8 year old Thomas J. , born Cubley, Derbyshire, recorded living in the village in the household of parents Thomas, (aged 32, a Farmer and Carrier, born Cubley) and Maria, (aged 30, born Fenney Bentley, Derbyshire). The couple then had three other children including a 6 year old John H. Wood, (possibly the 1916 entry Private John H. Wood, Royal Scots) and the 2 year old George Wood, (possibly the Private George Wood, Gloucesters shown as died Salonica, April 15, 1917. Indeed the additional information on CWGC is “Son of Thomas and Maria Wood, of Marston Lodge, Marston Montgomery, Doveridge, Derby.”). Both John and George are shown as born Cubley.

The “Navy man” referred to on the 1901 Census of England & Wales was on an institutional return. By the time you get back to pages 5 and 6 some of the entries, if you were being kind, might read "Rmli", (but it could just as easily be Pmfb ! The earlier pages appears to also  be married soliers quarters and before that officers quarters. The first entry on page 1 is Colonel Commandant Frederick Baldwin, who also signs the declaration in the preceding institutional return for the Royal Marine Barracks, Durnford Street, East Stonehouse.

By the time of the 1911 Census of England & Wales parents Thomas, (52, Farmer) and Maria, (50), were recorded living at Lodge Farm, Marston Montgomery, Doveridge, Derby. Living with them are 5 of their 7 children, including John, (26, Farmers Son, working on Farm). Both Cubley and Marston Montgomery fall within the Uttoxeter civil registration district for births, marriages and deaths.

The couple state they have been married 28 years. The most likely marriage of the parents is therefore the union of Thomas Wood and Maria Plant, recorded in the Uttoxeter District in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1882. And among the likely children of that couple are:-

• Thomas Joseph Wood, mothers’ maiden name Plant, birth registered Uttoxeter District, Q4 1882. The baptism of a Thomas Joseph Wood, son of Thomas and Maria Wood, took place at Cubley on the 19th November 1882. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNPF-2LV
• George Wood, mothers’ maiden name Plant, birth registered Uttoxeter District, Q2 1889.

But no John H. Wood There is a John Henry Wood whose birth was registered in the Uttoxeter District in Q2 1884, but his mothers maiden name was Ditchfield.

There is no obvious match for the Royal Marine on the 1911 Census of England & Wales. His service sheet shows him as stationed on HMS Devonshire from the 20th February 1911 to the 15th May 1911, which spans the 2nd April 1911 date of the Census.

The Wikipedia page for HMS Devonshire places her in the Reserve Third Fleet from 1909. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Devonshire_(1904)

Not an area where I have any expertise, and was confused when Wikipedia stated the Third Fleet only came into being on the 1st May 1912 - “its elderly ships were ordinarily only manned by a small maintenance crew during peacetime, but were intended to be manned by naval reservists when mobilised."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Fleet_(United_Kingdom)

If the Devonshire was at anchor at Scarpa Flow then anyone aboard may well have been covered by the 1911 Census of Scotland.

Cheers,
Peter

[butler]

The phrase 'the one shall be taken, and the other left' is a quote from the Bible referring to God taking his chosen ones at the end of time. The fuller quote is 'there shall be two men working in the field, one shall be taken and the other left.

Matthew Ch 24 v 40

 

Edited 18 September , 2021 by butler