Highland Light Infantry War Graves

[Shoosie]

Hello all,a few years ago i adopted two Highland Light Infantry war graves in my local cemetery.I make sure the graves are kept clean and tidy with flowers ect but i would love to find out more about these two men.I have found a little info on the CWGC sight about next of kin ect but very little else.I would love to put a face to these two men if possible,any advice would be great..... Private David Welsh Number 18231 died 20/03/1915 4TH Battalion Highland Light Infantry.Private P Duffy Number 8793 died 12/04/1915 1st Battalion Highland Light Infantry.Both men are buried side by side in the Bent Cemetery in Hamilton Lanarkshire Scotland.

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi

Welcome to the forum

This snippet from FMP newspapers may shed some light on David Welsh

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000733%2f19150331%2f019&stringtohighlight=david welsh hamilton

Kind Regards

Derek

[Shoosie]

Thanks Derek ! Wow thats a shock ! 

[rolt968]

P Duffy was Patrick Duffy, 1 Highland Light Infantry. He went to France on 6 January 1915 (Awards Roll 1914-15 Star - ancestry). He died in Ampton Red Cross Hospital (Registers of Soldiers' Effects - ancestry). (I wonder if that was Ampton Hall Red Cross Hospital, Bury St Edmunds?)

The Registers of Soldiers' Effects entry lists his brothers and sisters to whom his gratuity was paid.

(Have you read the "How to Research as Soldier Section in Long Long Trail?)

RM

 

Edited 16 September , 2021 by rolt968

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi Shoosie

Pretty much the same fate befell a local to me Fletton casualty, killed by his comrade cleaning a rifle

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/321969/EDWIN MARRIOTT/

BTW: admirable work, if I may say so, looking after those two graves so nicely.

Kind Regards

Derek

[rolt968]

The death of a Patrick Duffy was registered in the April - June quarter of 1915 in Bury St Edmunds. he was 36. (FreeBMD - ancestry).

RM

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi

Robert Laird, aged 50, the soldier accused of 'feloniously killing' David Welsh, was found 'no bill' at the Devon Assises, as reported in the Western Times, 8th June 1915. However, Robert was discharged the army.

Kind Regards

Derek

[Shoosie]

Hello all ! thank you so much for all the information i really appreciate it.I will sit tonight and work through all the info i have now ...Regards Elizabeth 

[Shoosie]

Sorry if this is a silly question but what does Theater of war mean ? 

[rolt968]

15 minutes ago, Shoosie said:

Sorry if this is a silly question but what does Theater of war mean ? 

Not a silly question at all.  It was the area where the war was being fought. On medal rolls ad medal rolls index cards, France and Flanders meant the "Western Front", the Balkans also covered Gallipoli and Salonika (if I remember rightly) and so on.

RM

[rolt968]

Be careful with Patrick Duffys. There was at least one other who served in the HLI.  He was also killed in the spring of 1915.

RM

[Shoosie]

20 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

Be careful with Patrick Duffys. There was at least one other who served in the HLI.  He was also killed in the spring of 1915.

RM

I think iv found the right one as his home address thats listed is in my town.

24 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

Not a silly question at all.  It was the area where the war was being fought. On medal rolls ad medal rolls index cards, France and Flanders meant the "Western Front", the Balkans also covered Gallipoli and Salonika (if I remember rightly) and so on.

RM

Its all so very interesting ....Elizabeth 

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi Elizabeth

Looking at the civil life of David Welsh, at the time of death he was 49, married to Isabella. His burial was on 25th March 1915, 5 days after his tragic death. Birth registered 1867 to Margaret (nee Young) and Robert. Scotlandspeople has him on the 1911 census living in Hamilton, but I do not have credits left.

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/record-results?search_type=people&dl_cat=census&surname=welsh&surname_so=exact&forename=david&forename_so=starts&second_person_forename=isabella&second_person_forename_so=exact&record_type=census&year[0]=1911

4th HLI was an extra reserve battalion, hence the advanced ages of Laird and Welsh. The LLT has notes here:-

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/highland-light-infantry/

Hope this helps (and that I have the right David!)

Kind Regards

Derek

[Shoosie]

1 hour ago, Swinesheadvillage said:

Hi Elizabeth

Looking at the civil life of David Welsh, at the time of death he was 49, married to Isabella. His burial was on 25th March 1915, 5 days after his tragic death. Birth registered 1867 to Margaret (nee Young) and Robert. Scotlandspeople has him on the 1911 census living in Hamilton, but I do not have credits left.

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/record-results?search_type=people&dl_cat=census&surname=welsh&surname_so=exact&forename=david&forename_so=starts&second_person_forename=isabella&second_person_forename_so=exact&record_type=census&year[0]=1911

4th HLI was an extra reserve battalion, hence the advanced ages of Laird and Welsh. The LLT has notes here:-

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/highland-light-infantry/

Hope this helps (and that I have the right David!)

Kind Regards

Derek

Thank you all so much ! 

[Tom Lang]

11 hours ago, Shoosie said:

Hello all,a few years ago i adopted two Highland Light Infantry war graves in my local cemetery.I make sure the graves are kept clean and tidy with flowers ect but i would love to find out more about these two men.I have found a little info on the CWGC sight about next of kin ect but very little else.I would love to put a face to these two men if possible,any advice would be great..... Private David Welsh Number 18231 died 20/03/1915 4TH Battalion Highland Light Infantry.Private P Duffy Number 8793 died 12/04/1915 1st Battalion Highland Light Infantry.Both men are buried side by side in the Bent Cemetery in Hamilton Lanarkshire Scotland.

Hello Elizabeth and welcome to the Forum
Hopefully the GWF will help you will find the answers to your questions.

Here's my 2p effort to help you.
I hope am not repeating anything you already know, but I don't want to assume too much.

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) 
*********************************************
The CWGC have both men listed on their website.

For Patrick Duffy: Casualty Details | CWGC

For David Welsh: Casualty Details | CWGC

From each of their entries on the CWGC website, you can see and download a CWGC Certificate, Grave Registration documents and Headstone documents hel at the CWGC.

Theatres of War.
****************
The mother site (Long, Long Trail (LLT) link in top left of this page) explains and lists each of the Theatres of War.
Essentially it is the Theatre (on foreign soil) where a soldier first enters the War.

Medal roll theatre codes – The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

In the case of Pte Patrick Duffy, his Medal Rolls Index Card (attached courtesy of Ancestry (spit)), (and affectionately abbreviated to MIC) shows that his First Theatre of War as "(1) -------"; 1 being France in his case.
His MIC also shows that he entered France on "6-1-15".
His Medal awards as shown are The Victory Medal, The British War Medal, and in his case (because he entered a Theatre of War prior to 1916) he was awarded The 1914-15 Star Medal (not to be confused with the 1914 Star Medal (it's a long story).
The Codes on the MIC are the references to the actual Medal Rolls and Page Numbers. I have also attached these (courtesy of Ancestry (spit)).

Since David Welsh never served abroad, no medals were awarded and no MIC or Medal Rolls exist.

Soldier's Effects Records.
**************************
These record a soldier's Outstanding Pay (if any) and how any funds were paid to his Next of Kin (NoK).
A War Gratuity was usually paid, and this is recorded here and to whom paid.

In respect of David Welsh, his widow Isabella was paid £1/17/3 of Outstanding Pay. The record shows that he was 'Not Admissable' for a War Gratuity (because he did not go abroad into a Theatre of War) See attached (courtesy of Ancestry (spit)).

In respect of Patrick Duffy, his Outstanding Pay and a War Gratuity of £3/-/- was distributed amongst his family.

Pension Records.
****************
The Western Front Association (WFA) took on the task of digitising the Pension Ledger Pages and Pension Index Cards.
These are not complete and there are missing records.

A Pension Card (courtesy of Fold3) exists for David Welsh, showing that his widow Isabella was awarded a Pension of £-/12/6 weekly.
The card notes that Isabella died on '9.6.17' and the amount was "decreased by £-/13/9[?] in respect of widow deceased".
The card notes that David Welsh was "20.3.15. Accidentally shot. Due to Military Service."

Newspaper Articles.
*******************
Courtesy of The British Newspaper Archives, I have found 29 items, 28 from UK and 1 from Canada.
Many of the articles are repeated verbatim, as that was how the 'news' was spread, and many local papers were all owned by the same 'entrepreneur'.
There are some accounts of how the 'accidental shooting' occurred. I am attaching one for the idle eyes of the curious.

I will send you a PM with my email address.
If you wish to have all that I have found, send me a short email and I will forward these to you.

Kindest Regards,
Tom (fae Larkie).
 

[Shoosie]

Tom thank you so much for all this info ! I also found him on someones tree on Ancestry last night as i would love to hopefully one day track down a photo of each man ( long shot i know).Iv also contacted the Bereavement services in Blantyre to see if his wife Isabella is buried with him........Elizabeth 

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi Elizabeth

According to this record on FMP she is also buried in Bent Cemetery

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBPRS%2FLANARKSHIRE%2FBUR%2F117968

The reference is Lanarkshire Family History Society:-

https://www.lanarkshirefhs.org.uk/

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Derek

[Shoosie]

33 minutes ago, Swinesheadvillage said:

Hi Elizabeth

According to this record on FMP she is also buried in Bent Cemetery

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBPRS%2FLANARKSHIRE%2FBUR%2F117968

The reference is Lanarkshire Family History Society:-

https://www.lanarkshirefhs.org.uk/

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Derek

Thanks again Derek, i have often wondered if she was with him because each year a few crocus always bloom at the bottom of the headstone so i know at some point in the past someone had tended the grave.....Elizabeth 

[Matlock1418]

On 15/09/2021 at 11:39, Shoosie said:

I would love to put a face to these two men if possible,any advice would be great

 

3 hours ago, Shoosie said:

i would love to hopefully one day track down a photo of each man

I know newspapers have been mentioned - If looking for a photo(s) I'm rather surprised nothing has already been turned up or the following been specifically mentioned for photos.

Your best bet is probably from news articles or obituaries in local newspapers.

:-) M

[Shoosie]

9 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

 

I know newspapers have been mentioned - If looking for a photo(s) I'm rather surprised nothing has already been turned up or the following been specifically mentioned for photos.

Your best bet is probably from news articles or obituaries in local newspapers.

:-) M

Hello, yes i checked the archive in our local paper and although there was an article there was no photo.Im finding it all very interesting so i wont give up on the photo hunt.

[david murdoch]

 

3 hours ago, Shoosie said:

Thanks again Derek, i have often wondered if she was with him because each year a few crocus always bloom at the bottom of the headstone so i know at some point in the past someone had tended the grave.....Elizabeth 

His wife died in 1917  due to Bronchial Pneumonia. The headstone/ burial records indicate there was originally no headstone and the CWGC headstone would be placed there after  Isabella had died. The CWGC headstone appears to be linked to a next of kin Mrs Baird. Possibly a married sister.

[Shoosie]

41 minutes ago, david murdoch said:

 

His wife died in 1917  due to Bronchial Pneumonia. The headstone/ burial records indicate there was originally no headstone and the CWGC headstone would be placed there after  Isabella had died. The CWGC headstone appears to be linked to a next of kin Mrs Baird. Possibly a married sister.

Thank you David im hoping the guy i have messaged on ancestry can possibly verify more information on his family and that Mrs Baird is a sister....Elizabeth 

[Tom Lang]

Hello Elizabeth,

Check your email. I've just sent everything - no photos in the (29) newspaper articles.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

[Tom Lang]

I omitted to add that both men are listed at The Scottish National War Memorial, Edinburgh Castle.

Patrick Duffy: 

Scottish National War Memorial | Roll Search | View details (snwm.org)

David Welsh: 

Scottish National War Memorial | Roll Search | View details (snwm.org)

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

[david murdoch]

There's quite a good write up about Patrick Duffy's passing and funeral in the Hamilton Advertiser 17th April 1915. This shows he was unmarried and living with a married sister in Gateside St. He had been a pre war regular and had completed 8 years service  and 4 in reserves by 1913, then re enlisted September 1914.