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Royal Engineers


Gail
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Hi I am trying to trace my great great uncle and have been for two years. He was originally based at Horfield Barracks and we have a service number of 91872 Jesse Flower(s) Born abt 1888.

 

He just seems to have disappeared and we can find no records of him in any databases. We promised our grandfather we would find him but we are slowly coming to a halt

 

Can anyone assist please 

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Welcome to the forum Gail.

It would be good to know all you know about him
Where does the bit about Horfield Barracks, and the number 91872 come from?

Knowing nothing about him whatsoever, I have found his medal index card:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1262/images/30850_A000549-01105?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=fdfa8e7edb10d2cf1f25c905a6f8053c&usePUB=true&_phsrc=jpv19&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=5317235

This shows he was initially  Pte. 9469 in the Gloucestershire regiment when he landed in France on December 21st 1914.
This qualified him for the 1914-1915 star, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.

There are probably more knowledgable folk out there who can tell when he was transferred to the Royal Engineers.

He ended the war as a Lance-Corporal.
 

Edit: I see that Horfield Barracks were in Bristol, so that fits with the Gloucestershire Regiment I suspect.

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
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Hello Gail,

  Welcome to the forum.

  A quick search shows that he he has a medal index card. This refers to a medal roll, which is also available.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41629_626640_11468-00159?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=381120737b9904f2c32b27d94e85e4e6&usePUB=true&_phsrc=GtI77&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.198145323.529661623.1631358198-119227612.1483026526&pId=570142

  Together, these records show he landed in France with the 2nd Battalion, Gloucestershire Regiment on 21st December 1914. He was promoted at some point to Corporal. He then transferred to the Royal Engineers, where he was allocated number 91872.

  Jesse was awarded the 1914-15 Star, British War Medal and British Victory Medal. He was transferred to Class Z Reserve, probably at the end of the war. This meant he could be recalled if required.

Regards,

Alf McM

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His service number indicates he joined the Gloucesters in early 1911. The second battalion, with whom he appears to be serving, were stationed in China at the outbreak of war entering theatre in France in December 1914. What makes you think he was at Horfield?

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Do you know the dates of his birth?
Members who are unfamiliar with him need to know where he was born as there are a couple of candidates in 1889 from different areas.

Likewise, did he marry?- name of spouse. Any children?

You say he seems to have disappeared. Literally? Vanished with no record of death in the UK?
Could he have emigrated?

Perhaps you can fill in some of the blanks?

 

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Wikipedia relates that the 3rd (Militia) Battalion of the regiment 'established itself at Horfield Barracks'. This may be where Jesse joined up before moving to the 2nd Battalion.

Acknown

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Wikipedia relates that the 3rd (Militia) Battalion of the regiment 'established itself at Horfield Barracks'. This may be where Jesse joined up before moving to the 2nd Battalion.

Acknown

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25 minutes ago, alf mcm said:

Jesse was awarded the 1914-15 Star, British War Medal and British Victory Medal. He was transferred to Class Z Reserve, probably at the end of the war. This meant he could be recalled if required.

Star medal roll shows he was placed in Class Z reserves on the 9/1/1919

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Hi Everyone.

We presume he went to Horfield since the 1911 census shows us he was there. Well we think he was. he was born in Clutton but out of wedlock and was bought up by his granny Jemina Flower  (nee Carter) born 1843 and John Flower born 1843. He actual mother was Elizabeth Flower

My grandad never knew his brother since there was a 30 year age gap

The war medals we knew of but nothing else. We cant find death records or where he went to serve. The only thing we know is he was born on 25th April 1886

 

We thought he joined the 3rd Gloucester (volunteer)reserves  but then he receives a medal for the Royal Engineers. We have no trace of him coming back to the Uk or where he would have gone after that

 

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His transfer to the RE would have taken place in late 1915 or very early 1916. Interestingly there are 7 men in his RE number range that all transferred to the RE at the same time some from 1st and 2nd Bn Gloucesters. Given that they all held the rank of sapper leads me to speculate that they might have been battalion signallers who were transferred to the RE Signal Service. Just a guess.

 

TR

Edited by Terry_Reeves
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2 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

His transfer to the RE would have taken place in late 1915 or very early 1916. Interestingly there are 7 men in his RE number range that all transferred to the RE at the same time from 1st and 2nd Bn Gloucesters. Given that they all held the rank of sapper leads me to speculate that they might have been battalion signallers who were transferred to the RE Signal Service. Just a guess.

TR

Hi Terry what is a number range? Do you think he was in the 2nd Batallion under number 9469? 

 

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24 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Do you know the dates of his birth?
Members who are unfamiliar with him need to know where he was born as there are a couple of candidates in 1889 from different areas.

Likewise, did he marry?- name of spouse. Any children?

You say he seems to have disappeared. Literally? Vanished with no record of death in the UK?
Could he have emigrated?

Perhaps you can fill in some of the blanks?

 

Hi as far as we know he didnt marry but if we have traced the right person someone pops up in Uxbridge in 1934. Have checked all emigration 

The gentleman in Uxbridge come back with his proper birth name Elijah Jesse Flowers born 1888 and lives in West Drayton area. 

DOB 24/41888, He was born in Clutton Bristol

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6 minutes ago, Gail said:

but then he receives a medal for the Royal Engineers.

His medals would have been impressed with the 2nd Bn Gloucestershire Regiment 

The first unit he served with in France

 

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Just now, Gail said:

Hi as far as we know he didnt marry but if we have traced the right person someone pops up in Uxbridge in 1934. Have checked all emigration 

The gentleman in Uxbridge come back with his proper birth name Elijah Jesse Flowers born 1888 and lives in West Drayton area. 

DOB 24/41888, He was born in Clutton Bristol

Also he had no children but may have lived at Breakspear House in Harefield which is a retirement home and died in 1964 and buried ( but we cant find where but we think it was Abney Park or Greenford park Cemetary Stoke Newington and we have inter numbers 38280 and 38279

 

1 minute ago, RaySearching said:

His medals would have been impressed with the 2nd Bn Gloucestershire Regiment 

The first unit he served with in France

 

Hi  Where would he have left from and any chance we can find where abouts in France 

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1 minute ago, Gail said:

Hi  Where would he have left from and any chance we can find where abouts in France 

The war diary can be downloaded for free from the national archives  you will have to register first

Ray

give me a couple of moments and i will try and find the diary and provide a link 

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  • Admin

You can download the war diaries free of charge from the National Archives website. You have to register first then get the download. The diaries give you the day to day activities of the battalion.

Michelle 

Edit-cross post with Ray 

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1 minute ago, Michelle Young said:

You can download the war diaries free of charge from the National Archives website. You have to register first then get the download. The diaries give you the day to day activities of the battalion.

Michelle 

Edit-cross post with Ray 

Thank you!  And can I just check which regiment am i following in the diaries. I get confused between the 3rd Gloucester reserves/volunteers and the Royal Engineers and someone else has now said the 2nd Batallion  Its so confusing 

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11 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

His medals would have been impressed with the 2nd Bn Gloucestershire Regiment 

The first unit he served with in France

 

Sorry what does impressed mean?

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2 minutes ago, Gail said:

Sorry what does impressed mean?

He name, service and regiment would have been stamped (impressed) on the rim of the medals

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1 minute ago, RaySearching said:

He name, service and regiment would have been stamped (impressed) on the rim of the medals

Thank you. We have never been able to find any medals since we are not sure where he lived when he came back from wherever and if we think it is the one we found in Uxbridge he lived in residential care and never marries 

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21 minutes ago, Gail said:

Hi Terry what is a number range? Do you think he was in the 2nd Batallion under number 9469? 

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, Gail said:

Hi Terry what is a number range? Do you think he was in the 2nd Batallion under number 9469? 

 

Gail

9469 was with 2nd Gloucesters and had the RE number 91872.

TR

 

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6 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

 

 

Gail

9469 was with 2nd Gloucesters and had the RE number 91872.

TR

 

You are a star!  Thank you

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This could be him on the 1939 register  date slightly out   Date of birth shown 24 /4/1889

18 Mill lane Middlesex  Yiewsley and West Drayton UD

flowers.JPG.af66c6527c0c68720a1f03b866c60eb4.JPG

Ray

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3 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

This could be him on the 1939 register  date slightly out   Date of birth shown 24 /4/1889

18 Mill lane Middlesex  Yiewsley and West Drayton UD

flowers.JPG.af66c6527c0c68720a1f03b866c60eb4.JPG

Ray

This is great since we had this for 1933 and he was still there in about 1951 when we think he moved to 18 mill road Yiewsley then to residential car in 1956(?) Breakspear House Harefield but of course this has now closed and no records

 

His death cert ( if it is the right one)  records say he was a retired soldier but the electroral records say he was a public works council contractor

 

We think he was then buried in Abney park Cemetary or Greenford Park in Stoke Newington but we cant find the actual spot(resting place) 

 

Cant understand why he did not return to Bristol since he had 12 other siblings but like I said my grandad was born 30 years after him

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