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Origin of 19th (Western) Division insignia?


poona guard

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Taken from ‘Divisional and Other Signs’ collected and illustrated by V. Wheeler-Holohan, Captain 12th London Rgt. Printed 1920.

The division had one of the best known signs in the BEF - the butterfly. The designs varied a lot but generally the butterfly was of the ‘peacock’ variety with eyes on its wings. It has no history, but was adopted before the Somme, 1916, by Major-General GMT Bridges who was then commanding the division.

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From 'Badges of Kitchener's Army' by David Bilton (2018).

Maj.General Bridges is credited with the Butterfly, used by the 19th Division, thought to represent the amount of moving that the Division did.

This old thread may be of interest to you.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/176232-19th-western-division/

Dave

Edited by HERITAGE PLUS
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I'm looking for information on the origin of the 19th (Western) Divisions 'butterfly' patch/insignia, which was, from what I understand, awarded to single units for exceptional feats of arms.

I've heard that it was butterfly because the division was often moved around, depending on where they were needed.

Is this true and if so, does anyone have any evidence for it?

Thanks

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  • Admin


Welcome to the forum. Oddly enough, this question was raised earlier

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Josh asked a question about  the 19th Division, I replied with a link to the thread by Poona guard and Poona guard asked where the thread is. Strange. 

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1 hour ago, poona guard said:

A fellow man from Hull I suspect by your location. I meant the previous thread there had been on the subject.

Not quite... but I am a Yorkshire man living in exile. The thread referred to by Michelle was the one you started earlier today and linked above :rolleyes:

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On 06/09/2021 at 21:56, poona guard said:

Okay. New to this game. But the Land of Green Ginger is in Hull. Which part of Yorkshire?

Got any photos of terriers wearing cloth badges?

The land of green ginger is my workshop in the back garden where once upon a time we produced green ginger beer... I’m a Sheffield lad born and bred, still have family there but have lived in Pembrokeshire for the last 30 years. Sadly no photos to share...

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It is likely that the emblem was designed/thought up at the establishment of the division. Any comments on being moved around can only have been made later.

 

Peter

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15 hours ago, mebu said:

It is likely that the emblem was designed/thought up at the establishment of the division. Any comments on being moved around can only have been made later.

 

Peter

Yes, you have a good point Peter, although given that most insignia/emblems were designed by the GOC or divisional staff, wouldn't there'd be some meaning behind their decision to chose the butterfly? 

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On 06/09/2021 at 15:30, Michelle Young said:


Welcome to the forum. Oddly enough, this question was raised earlier

Thanks Michelle for this. It's frustrating though as I actually have both those books and neither has evidence for it, although I guess that's FWW insignia for you.

I've also seen it claimed that the sign was supposed to be an allusion to patriotism, the beauty of life, fleeting death and unfulfilled futures. However, I think this is reaching somewhat...

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Josh, I do not know why the butterfly was chosen, maybe nobody does/did except the GOC.  However it is a fact that it was chosen before the Division did any travelling, not after they had moved around.

It is also unlikely that the 19th did any more travelling around than any other Division.

Peter

 

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  • 1 month later...

Most Division’s have a limited edition history published after the war.  If there’s one for 19th Inf Div perhaps there’ll be an explanation mentioned within it.

NB.  There was - see below.

03645455-4DF1-4720-B835-B7CE5DDAE7C2.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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19 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Most Division’s have a limited edition history published after the war.  If there’s one for 19th Inf Div perhaps there’ll be an explanation mentioned within it.

NB.  There was - see below.

03645455-4DF1-4720-B835-B7CE5DDAE7C2.jpeg

Hi FROGSMILE, it's a good suggestion, thanks :)

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15 minutes ago, Josh said:

Hi FROGSMILE, it's a good suggestion, thanks :)

As the sign was apparently the personal choice of the GOC (a common provenance for other such signs by many accounts) then I think your answer is more likely to be discovered via a study of the background pertaining to the general officer concerned.  It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the suggestion that he was a lepidopterist turns out to be true.

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