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19th officer cadet I’d love if any one recognised any names


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Young.jpg.485e5e2684438758ba4f91ee0866fb6c.jpg

 Original guess C Young but after cropping the signature – Possibly Cadet gazetted Second Lieutenant in the supplement dated 17th July 1917, Page 7200 Regular Army, Kings Own Scottish Borderers John Young.

John Young

His Medal Index Card shows he was initially Private 2139 in the Royal Scots Regiment when he landed at Gallipoli on the 25th April 1915. He was subsequently renumbered 250437 while serving with the 5/6th Battalion before being released to commission.

According to the Long, Long Trail,

1/5th Battalion (Queen’s Edinburgh Rifles)
August 1914 : in Forrest Hill, Edinburgh. Part of Lothian Brigade, Scottish Coast Defences.
11 March 1915 : transferred to 88th Brigade, 29th Division at Leamington Spa.
Sailed from Avonmouth 20 March 1915, going via Egypt to Gallipoli 25 April 1915.
Returned to Egypt 7 January 1916.
Moved to France, landing at Marseilles, 10 March 1916.
24 April 1916 : transferred to Lines of Communication.
15 June 1916 : amalgamated with 1/6th to become 5/6th Battalion.
29 July 1916 : transferred to 14th Brigade, 32nd Division.

 https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-scots-lothian-regiment/
(The same source records that the 1/6th Battalion did not go to Gallipoli).

The October 1917 British Army List shows a 2nd Lieutenant J.Young with seniority from the 27th June 1917 on the establishment of the Regular Army Battalions of the Kings Own Scottish Bordereres. (Column 1186b). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106329280

On the November 1918 British Army List he is shown as being on the strength of the 2nd Battalion. (Column 1135c). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123100785

The 2nd Battalion had been in France since August 1914 as part of the 5th Division. That Division was sent to Italy in November 1917, hurriedly returning to France during the first phase of the German Spring Offensive.

The MiC shows that he applied for his medals in October 1920, giving a contact address of c\o The Standard Life Assurance Company, 3 George Street, Edinburgh.

Barr.jpg.bf5fd6f5b05749a99836ff121072332f.jpg

Original guess A H Barr - Supplement to the London Gazette 20 July 1917 page 7420 as per @esco, Cadet Harry Alexander Barr to be a 2nd Lt in the Territorial Force w.e.f. 27th June 1917.

There is a Medal Index Card for a Harry ARTHUR Barr, initially Acting Corporal S/9346, 14th Battalion Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders amd subsequently 2nd Lieutenant and Lieutenant in the 6th Battalion, The East Kent Regiment. The Remarks section of the MiC contains an entry that probably means he commanded 39 Prisoner of War Company, Labour Corps, from the 2nd April 1918.

In the October 1917 British Army list there is no A.H. Barr or H.A. Barr listed. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106343954

By the time of the November 1918 Army List there are two H.A. Barr’s, (columns 924d and 411).

924d is the East Kent man, but he is a Second Lieutenant with seniority from the 15th March 1918, so can be ruled out.

411 is a 2nd Lieutenant H.A. Barr, with seniority from the 27th June 1917 who was serving with the 1/3rd Scottish Horse, a Territorial Force Yeomanry unit. He had been an acting Captain since the 6th May 1918.
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123094641

1/3rd Scottish Horse Yeomanry

Formed in August 1914 and moved to join 1/1st Scottish Horse, then in Northumberland. Service same as 1/1st until October 1916 when converted into 26th (Scottish Horse) Squadron, Machine Gun Corps (Cavalry); also provided a company to the Lovat’s Scouts which was then forming the 10th Cameron Highlanders.
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-yeomanry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-scottish-horse/
(The 1/1st was in Egypt in October 1916).

However while I’m finding a MiC for a HUGH Barr he appears to have only served in the ranks with the Scottish Horse, it looks from the MiC like he was discharged to a commission in the Rifle Brigade – which had no Territorial Force units – and subsequently the Machine Gun Corps.

Turning to the newspapers, the edition of the Perthshire Advertiser dated Wednesday, September 29, 1915 recorded the following wedding.

SCOTTISH HORSE WEDDING AT BALLINLUIG.

Barr – Stewart.

The marriage of Jean Rutherford Darnford Stewart, second daughter of Mr. Peter Stewart, Ballinluig, to Corporal Harry Alexander Barr, of the 3/3rd Scottish Horse, now stationed at Inver Camp, Dunkeld, and son of Mr. John Barr, biscuit manufacturer, Glasgow, was celebrated at Ballinluig on Tuesday. Rev. Coll. A. MacDonald, D.D., minister of Logierait, officiated.

The bride, who was given away by her father, wore a lovely frock of white silk, daintily trimmed with cream satin and edged with lace with bridal veil to match. She carried a beautiful bouquet of whilte and pink carnations. She wore no jewellery.

The bride was attended by Miss Catherine Macqueen, Logierait, who looked extremely handsome in a blue silk dress edged with fur. The bridegroom’s present was a pearl brooch. Mr Peter Stewart, brother of the bride, acted as groomsman. The brie travelled in a saxe blue costume with hat to match daintily trimmed and edged with fur.

Still couldn’t find a MiC and the famours Carr’s the biscuit company were based in Carlisle, I couldn’t find any record of them having a factory in Glasgow, and while the head of Carrs in the last quarter of the 19th Century was a Jonathan Dodgson Carr, he does not appear to have had a son Harry.

Cheers,
Peter

 

Edited by PRC
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21802302_Mysterysignature2.jpg.90e46900857a6eb5426e1bab50829685.jpg

When I initially looked at this the best I could see was that it might start with an M. Having cropped the signature I started to wonder if it might be a Henderson or Sanderson, but there were too many potential first initials to have a firm guess.

So possibly this is Cadet John Henderson to be 2nd Lieutenant, Garrison Battalion, Yorkshire Light Infantry, 27th June 1917. Page 7201, Supplement to the London Gazette, 17 July 1917. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7201/

There is a Medal Index Card for 2nd Lieutenant John Henderson, Garrison Battalion , Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry attached East Yorkshire Regiment. He was subsequently promoted Lieutenant. His first overseas posting was Bermuda, arriving on the 20th November 1917.

Of the three Garrison Battalions of the K.O.Y.L.I. , the 1st ended up in Ireland in May 1918. The 2nd went to France in July 1916, being renamed the 16th (Garrison) Battalion in July 1918, and the 3rd became the 14th (Home Service) Battalion.

Looking at the East Yorkshire Regiment, the 2/4th Battalion moved in November 1916 to Bermuda, remaining there throughout the rest of the war. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/east-yorkshire-regiment/

The MiC shows he applied for his British War Medal in January 1922, giving a contact address of 1, Drummond Place, Edinburgh.

Cheers,
Peter

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What a great posting in Ww1 eh 

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Tried looking in the Army lists for an A or M Roliver \ Rollason \ Rollinson but no candidates in the October 1917 Army List. Otherwise I’m stumped.

Todd.jpg.cd4b294d4ee2170afc5140f8136c0bf4.jpg

Original guess J.Todd - Probably Cadet gazetted Second Lieutenant in the Regular Army Frederick Todd, East Surrey Regiment, in the supplement dated 17th July 1917, Page 7200  (as identified by @esco https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7200

There is a Medal Index Card for a “Frederic” Todd, originally Corporal B 7692, 9th Army Cyclists Corps. He was discharged to a commission with the East Surrey Regiment on the 26th June 1917. He then served as a Second Lieutenant with the 8th Battalion, East Surrey Regiment.

The October 1917 British Army List shows a Second Lieutenant F.Todd, with seniority from the 27th June 1917, on the strength of the Regular Army Battalions of the East Surrey Regiment, (column 1192) and attached to the 8th Battalion. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106329775

8th Battalion War Diary.

19th August 1917.

Sunday: The day was observed as a day of rest, and Church services and sports were arranged during the day. The u/m Officers joined the Battalion for duty during the day:-
2/Lieut. C.D. Thacker. Posted to “B” Co.
2/Lieut. W.H. Cobb     Posted to “C” Co.
2/Lieut. F. Todd          Posted to “C” Co.

9th September 1917.

(While the Battalion was in training groups of about 50 to 100 were given a day trip to the seaside at Mardick).

A 5th party in charge  of 2/Lieuts. H. Fearn and F.Todd paraded at 7.30 a.m. at Bn. Hrs. and proceeded to the embussing point for a trip to MARDICK. The Drums with their instruments, and the football-team were included in this party.

Appendix D October 1917

ACCOUNT OF THE ACTION ON THE 12TH OCTOBER, 1917.

The Battalion moved up on the night of the 10th/11th only one guide being provided by the 32nd Brigade, as far as the MAISON de BULGARE. He lost his way, and the Battalion wandered all night, the first Company arriving at Battalion Headquarters at 4 a.m. The relief was rushed through, but could not be completed properly owing to the dawn.

Maps had been issued to Company Commanders showing forming up line, objectives, etc, but on the morning of the 11th fresh orders were received altering these. It was impossinle to see Company Commanders until dark, as they could not get to the Battalion Headquarters shell hole in daylight. They in turn had no means of explain to their Officers and N.C.O.s on the map, and in fact, had great difficulty in finding their Platoons owing to the darkness and shell-torm ground. No.5 Platoon inder 2/Lieut. N.L. Riddett, could not be found at all, until it was seen getting up and going forward when the barrage started. Under these conditions the men and section commanders had little chance of knowing what their objectives were, and no opportunity of looking at them beforehand in daylight.

The tape was laid out from GLOSTER FARM to TERRIER FARM by Lieut. K. Bell-Irving, who had no easy task, but it was eventually completed, although the tape was broken several times by shell fire.

Shortly before zero 2/Lieut. R.S. Franks, Commanding “D” Company, was killed, and a few minutes afterwards one of his subalterns, 2/Lieut. C.A. Heath was severely wounded.

The barrage started at zero minus 4 minutes by Brigade time, and appeared fairly intense, but machine gun fire was immediately opened from guns posted close to our tape, which was not touched by the barrage at all. 2/Lieut. C. Whyntie, the sole remaining Officer of “D” Company, was wounded at once, and Captain C.R. Holms, M.C., commanding “A” Company and 2/Lieut. F. Todd of “C” Company were also wounded very soon……

The remarks section of his MiC also references the London Gazette dated 11th October 1918.

He was also eligible for the Silver War Badge. The Silver War Badge Roll transcript on FindMyPast shows that the badge for Second Lieutenant F.Todd, East Surrey Regiment, was issued to 10 Queens Road, Marlow, Buckinghamshire on the 17th October 1918.

He applied for his medals in April 1925. His contact address then was 10 Queens Road, Marlow, Buckinghamshire.

Cheers,
Peter

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