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19th officer cadet I’d love if any one recognised any names


arantxa
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Young.jpg.485e5e2684438758ba4f91ee0866fb6c.jpg

 Original guess C Young but after cropping the signature – Possibly Cadet gazetted Second Lieutenant in the supplement dated 17th July 1917, Page 7200 Regular Army, Kings Own Scottish Borderers John Young.

John Young

His Medal Index Card shows he was initially Private 2139 in the Royal Scots Regiment when he landed at Gallipoli on the 25th April 1915. He was subsequently renumbered 250437 while serving with the 5/6th Battalion before being released to commission.

According to the Long, Long Trail,

1/5th Battalion (Queen’s Edinburgh Rifles)
August 1914 : in Forrest Hill, Edinburgh. Part of Lothian Brigade, Scottish Coast Defences.
11 March 1915 : transferred to 88th Brigade, 29th Division at Leamington Spa.
Sailed from Avonmouth 20 March 1915, going via Egypt to Gallipoli 25 April 1915.
Returned to Egypt 7 January 1916.
Moved to France, landing at Marseilles, 10 March 1916.
24 April 1916 : transferred to Lines of Communication.
15 June 1916 : amalgamated with 1/6th to become 5/6th Battalion.
29 July 1916 : transferred to 14th Brigade, 32nd Division.

 https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-scots-lothian-regiment/
(The same source records that the 1/6th Battalion did not go to Gallipoli).

The October 1917 British Army List shows a 2nd Lieutenant J.Young with seniority from the 27th June 1917 on the establishment of the Regular Army Battalions of the Kings Own Scottish Bordereres. (Column 1186b). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106329280

On the November 1918 British Army List he is shown as being on the strength of the 2nd Battalion. (Column 1135c). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123100785

The 2nd Battalion had been in France since August 1914 as part of the 5th Division. That Division was sent to Italy in November 1917, hurriedly returning to France during the first phase of the German Spring Offensive.

The MiC shows that he applied for his medals in October 1920, giving a contact address of c\o The Standard Life Assurance Company, 3 George Street, Edinburgh.

Barr.jpg.bf5fd6f5b05749a99836ff121072332f.jpg

Original guess A H Barr - Supplement to the London Gazette 20 July 1917 page 7420 as per @esco, Cadet Harry Alexander Barr to be a 2nd Lt in the Territorial Force w.e.f. 27th June 1917.

There is a Medal Index Card for a Harry ARTHUR Barr, initially Acting Corporal S/9346, 14th Battalion Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders amd subsequently 2nd Lieutenant and Lieutenant in the 6th Battalion, The East Kent Regiment. The Remarks section of the MiC contains an entry that probably means he commanded 39 Prisoner of War Company, Labour Corps, from the 2nd April 1918.

In the October 1917 British Army list there is no A.H. Barr or H.A. Barr listed. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106343954

By the time of the November 1918 Army List there are two H.A. Barr’s, (columns 924d and 411).

924d is the East Kent man, but he is a Second Lieutenant with seniority from the 15th March 1918, so can be ruled out.

411 is a 2nd Lieutenant H.A. Barr, with seniority from the 27th June 1917 who was serving with the 1/3rd Scottish Horse, a Territorial Force Yeomanry unit. He had been an acting Captain since the 6th May 1918.
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123094641

1/3rd Scottish Horse Yeomanry

Formed in August 1914 and moved to join 1/1st Scottish Horse, then in Northumberland. Service same as 1/1st until October 1916 when converted into 26th (Scottish Horse) Squadron, Machine Gun Corps (Cavalry); also provided a company to the Lovat’s Scouts which was then forming the 10th Cameron Highlanders.
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-yeomanry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-scottish-horse/
(The 1/1st was in Egypt in October 1916).

However while I’m finding a MiC for a HUGH Barr he appears to have only served in the ranks with the Scottish Horse, it looks from the MiC like he was discharged to a commission in the Rifle Brigade – which had no Territorial Force units – and subsequently the Machine Gun Corps.

Turning to the newspapers, the edition of the Perthshire Advertiser dated Wednesday, September 29, 1915 recorded the following wedding.

SCOTTISH HORSE WEDDING AT BALLINLUIG.

Barr – Stewart.

The marriage of Jean Rutherford Darnford Stewart, second daughter of Mr. Peter Stewart, Ballinluig, to Corporal Harry Alexander Barr, of the 3/3rd Scottish Horse, now stationed at Inver Camp, Dunkeld, and son of Mr. John Barr, biscuit manufacturer, Glasgow, was celebrated at Ballinluig on Tuesday. Rev. Coll. A. MacDonald, D.D., minister of Logierait, officiated.

The bride, who was given away by her father, wore a lovely frock of white silk, daintily trimmed with cream satin and edged with lace with bridal veil to match. She carried a beautiful bouquet of whilte and pink carnations. She wore no jewellery.

The bride was attended by Miss Catherine Macqueen, Logierait, who looked extremely handsome in a blue silk dress edged with fur. The bridegroom’s present was a pearl brooch. Mr Peter Stewart, brother of the bride, acted as groomsman. The brie travelled in a saxe blue costume with hat to match daintily trimmed and edged with fur.

Still couldn’t find a MiC and the famours Carr’s the biscuit company were based in Carlisle, I couldn’t find any record of them having a factory in Glasgow, and while the head of Carrs in the last quarter of the 19th Century was a Jonathan Dodgson Carr, he does not appear to have had a son Harry.

Cheers,
Peter

 

Edited by PRC
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21802302_Mysterysignature2.jpg.90e46900857a6eb5426e1bab50829685.jpg

When I initially looked at this the best I could see was that it might start with an M. Having cropped the signature I started to wonder if it might be a Henderson or Sanderson, but there were too many potential first initials to have a firm guess.

So possibly this is Cadet John Henderson to be 2nd Lieutenant, Garrison Battalion, Yorkshire Light Infantry, 27th June 1917. Page 7201, Supplement to the London Gazette, 17 July 1917. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7201/

There is a Medal Index Card for 2nd Lieutenant John Henderson, Garrison Battalion , Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry attached East Yorkshire Regiment. He was subsequently promoted Lieutenant. His first overseas posting was Bermuda, arriving on the 20th November 1917.

Of the three Garrison Battalions of the K.O.Y.L.I. , the 1st ended up in Ireland in May 1918. The 2nd went to France in July 1916, being renamed the 16th (Garrison) Battalion in July 1918, and the 3rd became the 14th (Home Service) Battalion.

Looking at the East Yorkshire Regiment, the 2/4th Battalion moved in November 1916 to Bermuda, remaining there throughout the rest of the war. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/east-yorkshire-regiment/

The MiC shows he applied for his British War Medal in January 1922, giving a contact address of 1, Drummond Place, Edinburgh.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited by PRC
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What a great posting in Ww1 eh 

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1972272769_Mysterysignature3.jpg.adb4fd470512f9ab81d68d0c76013e45.jpg

Tried looking in the Army lists for an A or M Roliver \ Rollason \ Rollinson but no candidates in the October 1917 Army List. Otherwise I’m stumped.

Todd.jpg.cd4b294d4ee2170afc5140f8136c0bf4.jpg

Original guess J.Todd - Probably Cadet gazetted Second Lieutenant in the Regular Army Frederick Todd, East Surrey Regiment, in the supplement dated 17th July 1917, Page 7200  (as identified by @esco https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7200

There is a Medal Index Card for a “Frederic” Todd, originally Corporal B 7692, 9th Army Cyclists Corps. He was discharged to a commission with the East Surrey Regiment on the 26th June 1917. He then served as a Second Lieutenant with the 8th Battalion, East Surrey Regiment.

The October 1917 British Army List shows a Second Lieutenant F.Todd, with seniority from the 27th June 1917, on the strength of the Regular Army Battalions of the East Surrey Regiment, (column 1192) and attached to the 8th Battalion. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106329775

8th Battalion War Diary.

19th August 1917.

Sunday: The day was observed as a day of rest, and Church services and sports were arranged during the day. The u/m Officers joined the Battalion for duty during the day:-
2/Lieut. C.D. Thacker. Posted to “B” Co.
2/Lieut. W.H. Cobb     Posted to “C” Co.
2/Lieut. F. Todd          Posted to “C” Co.

9th September 1917.

(While the Battalion was in training groups of about 50 to 100 were given a day trip to the seaside at Mardick).

A 5th party in charge  of 2/Lieuts. H. Fearn and F.Todd paraded at 7.30 a.m. at Bn. Hrs. and proceeded to the embussing point for a trip to MARDICK. The Drums with their instruments, and the football-team were included in this party.

Appendix D October 1917

ACCOUNT OF THE ACTION ON THE 12TH OCTOBER, 1917.

The Battalion moved up on the night of the 10th/11th only one guide being provided by the 32nd Brigade, as far as the MAISON de BULGARE. He lost his way, and the Battalion wandered all night, the first Company arriving at Battalion Headquarters at 4 a.m. The relief was rushed through, but could not be completed properly owing to the dawn.

Maps had been issued to Company Commanders showing forming up line, objectives, etc, but on the morning of the 11th fresh orders were received altering these. It was impossinle to see Company Commanders until dark, as they could not get to the Battalion Headquarters shell hole in daylight. They in turn had no means of explain to their Officers and N.C.O.s on the map, and in fact, had great difficulty in finding their Platoons owing to the darkness and shell-torm ground. No.5 Platoon inder 2/Lieut. N.L. Riddett, could not be found at all, until it was seen getting up and going forward when the barrage started. Under these conditions the men and section commanders had little chance of knowing what their objectives were, and no opportunity of looking at them beforehand in daylight.

The tape was laid out from GLOSTER FARM to TERRIER FARM by Lieut. K. Bell-Irving, who had no easy task, but it was eventually completed, although the tape was broken several times by shell fire.

Shortly before zero 2/Lieut. R.S. Franks, Commanding “D” Company, was killed, and a few minutes afterwards one of his subalterns, 2/Lieut. C.A. Heath was severely wounded.

The barrage started at zero minus 4 minutes by Brigade time, and appeared fairly intense, but machine gun fire was immediately opened from guns posted close to our tape, which was not touched by the barrage at all. 2/Lieut. C. Whyntie, the sole remaining Officer of “D” Company, was wounded at once, and Captain C.R. Holms, M.C., commanding “A” Company and 2/Lieut. F. Todd of “C” Company were also wounded very soon……

The remarks section of his MiC also references the London Gazette dated 11th October 1918.

He was also eligible for the Silver War Badge. The Silver War Badge Roll transcript on FindMyPast shows that the badge for Second Lieutenant F.Todd, East Surrey Regiment, was issued to 10 Queens Road, Marlow, Buckinghamshire on the 17th October 1918.

He applied for his medals in April 1925. His contact address then was 10 Queens Road, Marlow, Buckinghamshire.

Cheers,
Peter

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20 hours ago, PRC said:

A or M Roliver \ Rollason \ Rollinson

looks like Robinson to me .

There was an A Robinson commissioned 2Lt SR  RFA in Sept 1917 'From Officer Cadet Units to be 2Lts'

charlie

PS this would be Alexander Robinson, commision 9/9/17 or is that a bit late for you?

Formerly L19336, 687308,  67 Galbraith St, Millwall

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26 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

looks like Robinson to me .

There was an A Robinson commissioned 2Lt SR  RFA in Sept 1917 'From Officer Cadet Units to be 2Lts'

charlie

PS this would be Alexander Robinson, commision 9/9/17 or is that a bit late for you?

Formerly L19336, 687308,  67 Galbraith St, Millwall

Hi Charlie,

Nothing found so far to indicate this is a mixed group of cadets who would go on to be commissioned at different dates, so at the moment the key date seems to be the 27th June 1917. My understanding was also that artillery men went to Woolwich. Would seem unlikely that they, Engineers and Tank men would be going through an Officer Cadet course with infantry and yeomanry officers, but would be good to know if there were such mixed groups as that would open up the pool of potential candidates for the signatures.:)

However you may be on for an assist. The lists of cadets commissioned 2Lt that covers many of the men identified so far is on pages 7199 to 7201 in the Supplement to the London Gazette dated 17th July 1917. On page 7200 there is a William Robinson, commissioned in the Regular Army in the Kings Own Scottisn Borderers. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7200

The same page also has a William Frank Robinson commissioned in the Essex Regiment. While I can just about see a possible "W" at the start of the signature, I think "W.F." would be stretching things too much !

The KOSB man has potentially two MiCs.

The first just shows him as Corporal 4146 Army Cyclist Corps and covers his 1914/15 Star, having first landed in France on the 26th August 1915. The remarks column has him discharged to a commission in the K.O.S.B. on the 26th June 1917. It also shows him as Killed in Action on the 1st August 1918. His father, A.E. Robinson applied for his medals. He gave his address as Oak Tree Farm, Middleton St, George, Darlington, Durham.

The second covering the issue of his Victory Medal and British has ended up on the card of another William Robinson in error. Both cards are headed up that the two men are NOT identical.

CWGC records that Second Lieutenant William Robinson, 1st/2nd Bn. attd. 1st/5th Bn, Kings Own Scottish Borderers, died aged 27 on the 1st August 1918. William was the 'Son of Arthur Edward and Monica Mary Robinson, of Oak Tree Farm, Middleton St. George, Darlington.' He is buried now at Raperie British Cemetery, Villemontore, France but their is a Concentration report showing he was originally interred in a marked grave at Guichy Le Chateau. It looks like other man of the 1/5th who died the same day were either recovered from the battlefield nearby or were in an unmarked grave. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/297979/WILLIAM ROBINSON/

The Cemetery webpage adds

Villemontoire is connected entirely with the victorious advance of the 15th (Scottish) and 34th Divisions, under French leadership, in the period from the 23rd July to the 2nd August 1918.

The cemetery was made, after the Armistice, by the concentration of graves from the battlefield and from several smaller burial grounds which had been made by the Burial Officers and units of the two Divisions https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/30300/RAPERIE BRITISH CEMETERY, VILLEMONTOIRE/

The 1/5th (Dumfries and Galloway) Battalion, K.O.S.B. were then in the 103rd Brigade of the 34th Division,

The entry in the Battalion War Diary for the 1st August 1918 takes up nearly four pages but there is no specific reference to the circumstances of William Robinsons' death.

The Middleton St George War Memorial lists both a W. Robinson and a F Robinson. http://www.ww1-yorkshires.org.uk/html-files/middleton-st-george.htm

This appears to be Williams' brother Frederick, Pioneer 105374 in the 101st Field Company, Royal Engineers, who was Killed in Action on the 8th June 1917. He is shown on SDGW as born and resident Darlington. Additional inormation on CWGC is "Son of Mr. A. E. and Mrs. M. M. Robinson, of Oak Tree Farm, Middleton St. George, Darlington." https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/490559/FREDERICK ROBINSON/

Cheers,
Peter

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11 hours ago, PRC said:

Nothing found so far to indicate this is a mixed group of cadets who would go on to be commissioned at different dates, so at the moment the key date seems to be the 27th June 1917. My understanding was also that artillery men went to Woolwich. Would seem unlikely that they, Engineers and Tank men would be going through an Officer Cadet course with infantry and yeomanry officers, but would be good to know if there were such mixed groups as that would open up the pool of potential candidates for the signatures.

Basic Commissioning Course common to all?  Officer training in the British Army of 1914-1918 - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

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37 minutes ago, TullochArd said:

Other interpretations may be available but what I've take the information on that page to convey is liteally what is stated :-

Sandhurst and Woolwich

The Royal Military College at Sandhurst and the Royal Military Academy at Woolwich (for the Royal Artillery and Royal Engineers) had both existed for many years before the Great War as the primary route for the training of a prospective officer before he would be commissioned. They both continued in this role throughout the war and were considerably expanded to cope with the greater numbers.

and in the list of officer cadet battalions -

23 (Machine Gun Corps)
24 (Tank Corps)
Household Brigade
1 Cavalry
Royal Engineers Signals

Even the infantry officers bound for Garrison Battalions had their own Officer Training Battalion.

I'm also assuming the likes of Medical \ Veterinary had their own system - would a four and a half month course have been needed before such valuable skills could be put to use?

That to me suggests a specialisation approach right from the outset, rather than a one size fits all approach. It would also make sense to me - but realise that is usually something in short supply when it comes to the armed forces:)

Cheers,
Peter

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23 hours ago, PRC said:

While I can just about see a possible "W" at the start of the signature

Yes, possible.

This is Wm Robison's obit (courtesy FindmyPast)

1956743931_GWFRobinsonWKOSBLieutKilled.JPG.77ed4a968878c1d4ddf4ec59293a5932.JPGPoW was Arthur, 118063 MGC

11 hours ago, PRC said:

That to me suggests a specialisation approach right from the outset, rather than a one size fits all approach.

I had assumed that (as in the more recent-over 50 years ago- days of Mons OCS), that there was a basic all-comers course that led to commissioning, followed by specific training at eg Woolwich or Larkhill for a Gunner. But that would be after commissioning and in the case of the Alex Robinson I offered, he was already an experienced gunner Sergeant so the timescale, I agree, rules him out.

Charlie

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1681289902_Mysterysignature4.jpg.1ffb654988382ca4c61bbe77552e204a.jpg

Possibly the Cadet who was to be temporary 2nd Lieutenant in the Regular Army Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment John Thomas Siddons – Supplement to the London Gazette 17 July 1917 page 7200. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7200

His Medal Index Card shows he first landed in France on the 25th June 1915  as Private 2880 in the North Staffordshire Regiment. He was subsequently renumbered 200446 – probably as part of the Territorial Force renumbering in early 1917. He was discharged to commission on the 27th June 1917. He would subsequently serve as a 2nd Lieutenant and later a Lieutenant on the 1st Battalion, Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment. The card is noted that he was on the exonerated officers lists – which means he was a P.o.W.

The October 1917 British Army Lists shows him on the strength of the 1st Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Nottinghamshire and Dernyshire Regiment). See column 1316d. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106330875

The 1st Battalion were part of the 24th Brigade of the 8th Division and had been in France since the 5th November 1914. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/sherwood-foresters-nottinghamshire-derbyshire-regiment/

The record card at the International Committee of the Red Cross for 2nd Lieutenant John Thomas Siddons, A Company, 1st Battalion Sherwood Foresters, shows that he was captured on the 24th March 1918. The report they received from the German authorities in August 1918 records that he was captured at St. Christ, and was originally held Karlerzhe. He was born 15th November 1897 at Kidsgrove. His next of kin was his father, G, Siddons, of 36, High Street, Tunstall, North Staffs. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/1971813/3/2/

Early in the morning of March 21, 1918 the Germans attacked the allied lines during the opening of the Spring Offensive. As the Germans pushed forward the 8th Division was moved from Flanders to the Somme to do what it could to stem the tide. The 1/Sherwoods dug in on the West bank of the Somme and defended the bridge at St Christ on the evening of March 23rd. The next few days saw the 1/Sherwoods engaged in dogged resistance, ordered withdrawal and then counter-attack. https://www.grandadswar.org/regiments/1st-battalion-sherwood-foresters/

Nottingham Evening Post, May 2nd 1918.

PRISONERS OF WAR. (includes)

SECOND-LIEUT. J.T. SIDDONS, Sherwood Foresters, who was recently reported wounded and missing, is now known to be a prisoner of war and to be suffering from two wounds. He belongs to Sawley.

John applied for his medals in August 1920 giving a contact address of 36, High Street, Tunstall. North Staffs, but with the medals to go c\o 25, St. Dunston Road, Golders Green, London N.W.2

A John T. Siddons, born 15th November 1897, was recorded as the first person in the household at 15 South Way, Oldham, Lancashire on the 1939 Register. A married man, he worked as an Electric Washing Machine Salesman. The second person in the household, a married woman Ethel Siddons, born 3rd September 1900 is almost certainly his wife.

The death of a John T. Siddons, aged 63, was recorded in the Westminster District of London in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1961. There is no obvious civil probate for him.

Thompson.jpg.48a607ad59fd03782cddd6ed83c39a5e.jpg

E C Thompson

Cadet to be temporary 2nd Lieutenant in the Local Reserve, Royal Irish Rifles, Edmund Charles Thompson. - Supplement to the London Gazette 17 July 1917 page 7201. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7201/

His Medal Index card shows he was originally Lance Corporal 15/13730 Royal Irish Rifles when he landed in France on the 3rd October 1915. Discharged to a Commission on the 26th June 1917, he was subsequently 2nd Lieutenant and then Lieutenant in the 15th Battalion, Royal Irish Rifles.

The October 1917 British Army Lists records a 2nd Lieutenant E. C. Thompson with seniority from the 27th June 1917 on the strength of the 19th (Reserve) Battalion, Royal Irish Rifles, (see column 1496m). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106332624

By the time of the November 1918 Army List he was back on the strength of the Regular Army establishment of the Royal Irish Rifles – see column 1492e. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123104937

He applied for his medals in April 1921 giving a contact address of 36, Rowlsey Avenue, Manor Road, Levenshulme, Manchester.

Stanley.jpg.f4ad0f9ba317c359bc36091ff80ae11d.jpg

My original guess was G E Casley (or Stanley?)

There is a MiC for a Geoffrey Ernest Stanley who was commissioned into the South Staffordshire Regiment on the 27th June 1917. He was originally Private 0306 then 200678 South Staffordshire Regiment.

The October 1917 British Army List shows a 2nd Lieutenant G.E. Stanley with seniority from the 27th June 1917 recorded on the strength of the 2/5th Battalion, South Staffordshire Regiment. (see column 1250).  https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106330303

By the time of the November 1918 Army List he is simply shown on the establishment of the 5th Battalion – see column 1249d. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123102033

He applied for his medals in March 1922 giving a contact address of Daffodil House, Sutton Road, Walsall.

May be a co-incidence, but on the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a 19 year old Geoffrey Ernest Stanley, born Walsall, who was recorded living at 3 Belvedere Road, Walsall. A single man, he worked in the Fancy Leather Trade. This was the household of his parents William Lucas Stanley, an Ironfounders Manager, and Amelia Jane Stanley.

On the 1939 Register a Geoffrey E. Stanley, born 25th November 1891, was recorded as the first person in the household at 257 Sutton Road, Walsall, Staffordshire. A married man, he worked as a Managing Director of a Cardboard Box factory. During the war he also served with the ARP. The second person in the household, a married woman Kathleen M. Stanley, born 26th January 1903, is almost certainly his wife.

The death of a Geoffrey E. Stanley, aged 73, was recorded in the Walsall District in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1965. The 1965 Probate Calendar records that a Geoffrey Ernest Stanley, of 257 Sutton Road, Walsall, died on the 23rd July 1965 Probate was granted to the National Provincial Bank Limited. https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Stanley&yearOfDeath=1965&page=3#calendar

Cheers,
Peter

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369737736_RandlesorCandles.jpeg.1add64cb38abf202ffc51d3bb5f70742.jpeg

My original guess was F Ian Candle or Frank Candle – but I’m not finding a likely MiC or London Gazette entry.

376091861_PerkinsorGaskins.jpg.b1fba0aa99d2c76be9deccafcd4fb187.jpg

Possibly L. Perkins or Gaskins? But not finding a MiC for a Second Lieutenant commissioned at the right time.

Davies.jpg.7068ee66901ab0a400c8b144c2f75f44.jpg

D P Da???? Or W. J. Davies \ D.J. Davies?

The Supplement to the London Gazette dated 17th July 1917 on page 7200 has Cadet David Joseph Davies to be temporary Second Lieutenant in the Regular Army, Welsh Regiment.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7200

The Medal Index Card for Serjeant 41880 David Joseph Davies shows his first theatre of war was Salonika, although it doesn’t say when he first landed. He was discharged to a commission on the 25th June 1917. He was subsequently a Second Lieutenant in the Welsh Regiment.

The October 1917 British Army List has a Second Lieutenant D.J. Davies with seniority from the 27th June 1917 who is shown on the strength of the Regular Army Battalions of the Welsh Regiment, but attached to the 14th Battalion. (see column 1272d) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106330490

The 14th Service Battalion, part of the 114th Brigade in the 38th Welsh Division, had been in France since December 1915. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/welsh-regiment/

According to his MiC he applied for his medals in August 1923, with a contact address of ‘Danycoed’, Wood Street, Maesteg, Glamorgan.

Cheers,
Peter

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"D P Da???? Or W. J. Davies \ D.J. Davies?"

Looks like W J Wair ?? to me. The first and third letters appear to be the same - Or it would be D J Dair(es?)nDaines??? but looks like an r in the middle.

Ref J"Yreonci"- it reminds me of a  census entry transcribed as "Yremais"- which was in fact "yeomans"- so suggesting Yreonci could be "Yeo- something...."

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Is there any names you want me to re photograph better angles ?

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On 26/09/2021 at 11:04, arantxa said:

Is there any names you want me to re photograph better angles ?

I think the only one so far was this one from the top. It's to the left of what looks to be W. Neill.

On 08/09/2021 at 00:19, PRC said:

 

Day.jpg.af5a1e5cc507e4002680f4dcefa4c7de.jpg

My original thought was D L Day, but now I’ve cropped the signature I’m thinking something more like W.L. J????? or D.L.Johns.

Perhaps a better image would help @arantxa – that was one of the few I had to crop from the full picture.

1164105025_Hallcrop.jpg.5c0ad961b0db345aac1413e18b2560d1.jpg

Cheers,
Peter

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39516CD3-1779-4EA6-87A2-2BCF980778AB.jpeg

51626C62-572A-41EE-8644-D4B5B3344512.jpeg

E45D83A0-FC25-44BC-97EB-5025A9356ED9.jpeg

5B78454B-A693-4979-BF4E-FC503CFA2386.jpeg

394D9FA8-4AE1-49CB-9BCC-8E6F7CB6AE45.jpeg

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1976173378_GatesorGales.jpg.36b0a23ab1edf6b435bfe564696c74ec.jpg

My original guess J.H. Gales or Gates -  Possibly Cadet gazetted Second Lieutenant in the London Gazette  supplement dated 17th July 1917, Page 7199 Lincolnshire Regiment Henry James Gale or Page 7200 Middlesex Regiment Henry Alfred Gates.Both Temporary Commissions in the Regular Army.

Having cropped the signature I think I’m more leaning towards "H.A Gates". (Henry Alfred Gates)

No obvious MiC for that man.

The British Army List for October 1917 shows Second Lieutenant H.A. Gates on the strength of the 4th Battalion, Middlesex Regiment with seniority from the 27th June 1917. (See column 1378a). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106331414

The Long, Long Trail records that the 4th Battalion had been in France since the 14th August 1914, and by the time of the October 1917 Army List they were part of the 63rd Brigade of the 37th Division. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-duke-of-cambridges-own-middlesex-regiment/

By the time of the November 1918 Army List there is a Second Lieutenant H.A. Gates with seniority from the 27th June 1917, but now shown on the establishment of the Regular Army Battalions of the Rifle Brigade. (See column 1554d). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123105489

According to an old post on the forum @spof has had cause to look at the officer file for 2nd Lieutenant Henry Alfred Gates. Middlesex Regiment later Rifle Brigade. Would be good if a copy of his signature could be sourced from there to make a comparison.

Moore.jpg.a5272fa94dc66d8edb61576b54b7aa92.jpg

A R Moore (or A.H. Moore)

No obvious candidate in the October 1917 Army List for an A R or A.H. Moore.

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The October 1917 Army List shows a W.E Pearce, a Second Lieutenant with seniority from the 27th June 1917, attached to the establishment of the Regular Army Battalions of the Middlesex Regiment. (See column 1879). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106331436

There ia  Medal Index Card for a William Edward Pearce who was commissioned in the Middlesex Regiment on the 27th June 1917. He was originally Sergeant 3153 when he first landed in France on the 1st September 1915 serving with the same Regiment. He was then service number 10902 in the 5th Battalion, London Regiment, before being renumbered 304288 at the start of 1917. He applied for the 1914 Star in September 1919, giving his address as 21 Lancaster Road, Stroud Green, London, N4. His address later changed to 14 Carlton Road, Stroud Green.

The November 1918 British Army List still shows him on the strength of the regular Army Battalions of the Middlesex Regiment. (Column 1378g). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123103497

Clifford.jpeg.ead415a057d56221c8bea39ab74db20a.jpeg

My original guess was J.G Ballard but @esco has potentially come up with a much better candidate in a Cadet John George Clifford who received a temporary commission in the Regular Army, Welsh Regiment from the 27th June 1917. (Supplement to the London Gazette, 17 July 1917, page 7200) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7200

The most likely MiC shows that Sergeant 16199 John G. Clifford was serving with the 9th Battalion, Welsh Regiment, when he first landed in France on the 19th July 1915. He was discharged to a commission on the 26th June 1917.

In the October 1917 British Army List there is a Second Lieutenant J.G. Clifford with seniority from the 27th June 1917 shown on the establishment of the Regular Army Battaliosn of the Welsh Regiment, but attached to the 10th Battalion. (Column 1272d) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106330490

From the Long, Long Trail the 10th Battalion :-

Landed at Le Havre in December 1915.
7 February 1918 : 8 officers and 150 men of “A” Company posted to 13th (Service) Battalion.
8 February 1918 : 8 officers and 150 men of “B” Company posted to 14th (Service) Battalion.
26 February 1918: 550 men form 1 Entrenching Battalion and are later redeployed to other units. This completes the disbanding of 10th (Service) Battalion.
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/welsh-regiment/

By the time of the November 1918 British Army List he is still one of 24 Second Lieutenants shown on the strength of the 10th Battalion – but there are no Lieutenants, Captains or Majors. (see column 1278a) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123102333

According to the MiC, his post-war address for his medal application, (undated), was 20 Grawen Tor, Brecon Road, Merthyr Tydfil.

Cheers,
Peter

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This is a really fascinating thread

Thank you

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Spencer.jpg.02653784c50e60578820c62bfe449fc0.jpg

My original informed guess was just a ? for this one. Having cropped it I think it might be J. Spencer.

On page 7199 of the Supplement for the 17th July 1917 there is a Cadet John Spencer, to be Temporary 2nd Lieutenant in the Regular Army, Royal Fusiliers  with effect from the 27th June 1917. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7199/

On the October 1917 British Army List he was shown attached to the Regular Army Battalions of the Royal Fusiliers, but serving with the 17th Battalion. (See column 964) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106327597

The 17th (Service) Battalion, (Empire) Royal Fusiliers had been in France since November 1915. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-fusiliers-city-of-london-regiment/

However a check of the 17th Battalion War Diary from the end of June 1917 to the 31st December 1917 brings up no reference to the arrival of John Spencer – and the postings in of other officers are referenced.

Not obviously on the November 1918 Monthly Army List.
No obvious MiC.

No obvious entry on CWGC.

Clements.jpg.4205afac9bc1789bf5929c98fd481b13.jpg

My original guess - Frank S. Clements

The Supplement to the London Gazette dated 20 July 1917 lists a Cadet Daniel Georgeson Clement to be 2nd Lt. Territorial Force, from the 27th June 1917.

The National Archive has officers papers for a 2nd Lieutenant Daniel Georgeson Clement, Lanarkshire Yeomanry. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C684371

No obvious match in the indexes to the October 1917 and November 1918 British Army Lists. However a check of the October 1917 entry for the Lanarkshire Yeomanry does show a 2nd Lieutenant D. G. Clement with seniority from the 27th June 1917. He is simply shown on the strength of the Lanarkshire Yeomany. (Column 369) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106324055

The most likely MiC is for Private \ Acting Corporal 3190 Daniel Georgeson Clement 9th Battalion Highland Light Infantry, who served in France from the 6th November 1914 to February 1915. He subsequently served in Egypt from the 8th January 1916 to the 14th February 1917. He was discharged to a commission on the 26th June 1917.

He would finish the war as a Lieutenant in the Lanarkshire Yeomanry, attached to the Kings African Rifles. (The November 1918 British Army Lits has a D.G. Clement on the strength of the Lanarkshire Yeomanry, with c.o. in brackets after the name. Colonial Office perhaps?).

He applied for his 1914 Star in September 1919, giving a contact address of Kourgan, Barrhead, Scotland.

May be a co-incidence but a Daniel Georgeson Clement, a married 26 year old Provision Merchant arrived at Quebec on the 7/8/23 aboard the SS Megantic, having travelled 2nd Class. He was born Ollakiepatrick, Scotland. Daniel was accompanied by Agnes Wilson, (aged 25) and the couples last permanent address was Stevenston, Scotland. His next of kin was his sister Annie J Clement, of 11 Randolph Gardens, Broomhill, Glasgow. Their destination was Chicago, Illinois.

Daniel was described as 5 feet 10 inches tall, with fair complexion, fair hair and a scar on left eye. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK31-3MQV

The death of a Daniel Georgeson Clement, born Dumbarton, West Dunbartonshire on the 19th May 1896 occurred at Saanichton, British Columbia, Canada, on the 7th November 1978. He is buried at the Royal Oak Burial Park Cemetery, Victoria, British Columbia. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/157252179/daniel-georgeson-clement

According to his British Columbia Death Registration he was a widower, his last wife being Donna Mummery. His parents were James Clement and Jessie Macarthur. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FLB1-HDW

And going back there is a 4 year old Daniel G. Clement, born Old Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire, who was recorded on the 1901 Census of Scotland living at Buchanan Street, Balfron, Clackmannanshire. That is the household of his parents James, (33, Grocer & Carriage Hirer) and Jessie, (35) as well as siblings Annie, (13), and James, (8).

Starks.jpg.6146f858825f6caa19b6ec4d356559dc.jpg

Original guess - N. C. Starks – Cadet gazetted Temporary Second Lieutenant in the supplement dated 17th July 1917, Page 7200 Regular Army Duke of Cornwall Light Infantry Norman Charles Starks https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7200

There is a Medal Index Card for an Acting Corporal 26993 Norman Charles Starks, Duke of Cornwalls Light Infantry who was discharged to a commission on the 26th June 1917. He only qualified for the Victory Medal and the British War Medal. He would go on to serve as a 2nd Lieutenant and then Lieutenant in the same Regiment.

 The October 1917 British Army List shows a Second Lieutenant N. C Starks as attached to the establishment of the Regular Army Battalions of the Duke of Cornwalls Light Infantry, but on the strength of the 6th Battalion. (Column 1200c). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106329852

The 6th Battalion had been in France since May 1915. It would be disbanded on the 20th February 1918. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/duke-of-cornwalls-light-infantry/

The 6th Battalion War Diary between the end of June 1917 and the end of February 1918 makes no mention of Norman Starks – indeed no arrivals are named and it is mid-December 1917 before any of the officers killed or wounded are even named. The disbandment of the battalion at Jussy in the early days of February 1918 has very little details other than to state that officers, n.c.o’s and men to be passed to the 1/5th Battalion left on the 6th, those bound for the 10th D.C.L.I. on the 8th and the 7th D.C.L.I. on the 9th. Most of the remainder would go to III Corps Reinforcement Camp on the 12th, with the rest to the 16th Entrenching Battalion on the 20th.

 By the time of the November 1918 Army List, still a 2nd Lieutenant, 2nd Lieutenant N.C. Starks was shown as attached to the 1/5th Battalion. (Column 1200c). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123101469

According to the MiC when he applied for his medals in September 1923 his contact address was 31 Wheatstone Road, Southsea.

The only like match in the birth records of England and Wales was that of a Norman Charles Starks whose birth was registered in the Portsea District of Hampshire in the April to June quarter, (Q2). Of 1897.

 On the 1911 Census of England & Wales the 13 year old Norman Charles Starks, born Southsea, Hampshire and still at school, was recorded living at 144 Somers Road, Southsea. This was the household of his parents Frank, (aged 50, a Pawnbrokers Manager) and Emily.

 The Portsmouth Evening News dated 16th November 1925 records that a local firm, Messrs Leetham Ltd, famous for the manufacture of corsets, were expanding by opening a new factory near Dublin. This would be incorporated locally, and one of it’s three directors was to be a Norman C. Starks.

A passenger list for the SS Britanic, departing Southampton on the 3rd October 1936, bound for New York, shows a 39 year old Company Director, Norman Charles Starks, born Portsmouth, England, and his 36 year old wife Irene Ida. Both had visas issued in Dublin, where they were stated to be resident. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24KH-W4V

 No obvious match for Norman on the 1939 Register – but that’s probably to be expected.

The Weekly Irish Times dated 26th February 1949 records the engagement of Geoffrey Norman Starks, the son of Mr. and Mrs N.C. Starks, 24 Bushy Park Road, Rathgar, Dublin.

The death of a Norman Charles Starks, born 7th April 1897, was recorded in the Surrey Mid Eastern District in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1974.

The 1975 Probate Calendar records that a Norman Charles Starks, of Briarfield, Brocklahm Lane, Betchworth, Surrey, died on the 24th December 1974. https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Starks&yearOfDeath=1975&page=1#calendar

Cheers,
Peter

Edited by PRC
Typo
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Tryon.jpg.26a71ec2017224984d66e3cc3e16d913.jpg

My previous guess was E.E. Lyon.

Going through the possibles in the the London Gazette, I think the closest is:- Supplement 17 July 1917, Page 7199 Cadet Egerton Edward Tryon, Temporary Lieutenant. Regular Army, Royal Fusiliers. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7199/

No immediately obvious Medal Index Card – but see below.

On the October 1917 British Army List he was shown attached to the Regular Army Battalions of the Royal Fusiliers. (See column 964) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106327597

By the time of the December 1917 British Army List, 2nd Lieutenant E.E.Tryon, with seniority from the 27th June 1917 is shown on the establishment of the 26th (Service). Battalion, (Bankers), Royal Fusiliers – see column 970. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103982588

In France since May 1916, the 26th Battalion would move to Italy in November 1917, before being rushed back to France in March 1918. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-fusiliers-city-of-london-regiment/

The battalion war diary from June to October 1917 is at times very faint and difficult to read. As far as I can tell 2/Lt Tryon doesn’t get a mention on arrival – but then nor does any other officer. Similarly although officer casualties are referenced they are not named except for when a German air raid included three direct hits on the Battalion HQ on the 28th September 1917, leading to the death of the commanding officer and the adjutant from wounds, and wounding others including the Medical Officer.

The Medical Admission register for Queen Alexandra’s Hospital at Millbank records that on the 11th October 1917 a 2nd Lieutenant E.E. Tryon, 26th Battalion, Royal Fusiliers was admitted with S.W to the upper extremities, (VIII, 4), more specifically a compound fracture of the right arm and e (elbow?) front. On the 26th February 1918 he would be moved on to the Aux I P, 17 Park Lane, Brighton. On admission he was stated to be 31 years old, and had been in the Army 16 months of which 7 were with the field force.

The Army and Navy Gazette edition dated November 24, 1917 includes a 2nd Lieutenant E.E. Tryon, Royal Fusiliers, who had been wounded in action.

Assuming he was born in England & Wales, (a big assumption), then the only likely candidate in the civil birth records is an Egerton Edward Tryon whose birth was registered with the civil authorities in the Kensington District of London in Q2 1886.

Born 17th March 1886, Egerton Edward Tryon was baptised at Christ Church, Milton next Gravesend, Kent, on the 17th June 1888. Parents were Egerton Edward and Catherine. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J7XS-6R8

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales the unmarried 25 year old Egerton Edward Tryon, a Commercial Clerk for a Shipping Agent, was recorded living at 139 Stapleton Hall Road, Stroud Green, Hornsey, Middlesex. This was the household of his widowed mother, the 52 year old Catherine Tryon, a Boarding House Keeper.

An Egerton E Tryon married a Mabel M. Parke in the Edmonton District of Middlesex in Q2 1920.

An Egerton E. Tryon, a married Fancy Goods Manufacturer born 17th March 1886, was recorded as the first person in the household at 39 Rookfield Avenue, Haringey, London on the 1939 Register. The second person was a married woman, (and almost certainly his wife), a Mabel M. Tryon, born 21st November 1888 and a Decorative Artist. No civil defence roles are recorded against either of them. The record for the third person in the household is officially closed.

In 1948 a 61 year old Egerton Tryon, a 59 year old Mabel Tryon and a 25 year old Patrick Tryon sailed from Southampton aboard the S.S. Aquitania, bound for Halifax, Canada.

An Egerton Edward Tryon, born 17th March 1886 in London, the son of Egerton Edward Tryon and Catherine Neale, and the husband of Mabel Marian Parke, is recorded as having died at Vancouver British Columbia on the 11th November 1972. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FLBN-97P

Armed with that information I took another look at the MiC record.  There is a MiC for a Private G/50123 Egerton E. Tryon, Middlesex Regiment who was discharged to a commission on the 27th June 1917. There are no service medals shown but on the back of the card it reads “Ext from B20 + VM roll E/1/102 B/26 Page 4410 26/7/20” which I’m reading as an "Extract" from those documents. The front of the card reads “S.W.B. Card shows eligible 26.2.19 LG 6.9.19”. And flipping to the back it reads “SWB card shows 139 Stapleton Hall Road, Stroud Green, London”. So to me that reads like there should be a MiC for his service medals and a MiC for his Silver War Badge – but both seem to have disappeared into the woodwork.

I also could not track down a Silver War Badge Roll entry for him. The address on the MiC however does tie in with the address he was living at on the 1911 Census of England & Wales. There appears to be a pension ledger card for him.

Rees.jpeg.89a751c34a66e36309aae72aa5d745a9.jpeg

Jno H Rees  - Supplement to the London Gazette 20 July 1917 page 7420 as identified by @esco. Cadet John Harry Rees to be a 2nd Lt in the Territorial Force w.e.f. 27th June 1917.

The most likely MiC is for a Second Lieutenant John Harry Rees, Pembroke Yeomanry, subsequently 1th Battalion, Kings Shropshire Light infantry and then Lieutenant, 3rd Battalion, Welsh Regiment. I suspect he was attached those last two units, as his medals appear on the Service Medal Roll for the Officers of the Pembroke Yeomanry.

The British Army List for October 1917 shows him on the establishment of the Pembrokeshire Yeomanry as a Second Lieutenant with seniority from the 27th June 1917, (column 406). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106324198

According to the MiC his first Theatre of War was France on the 20th April 1918.

The British Army List for July 1918 shows 2nd Lieutenant J.H. Rees on the establishment of the Pembroke Yeomanry, but attached to the 1st Battalion Shropshire Light Infantry, (column 406). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103510286

There is a Medical Admissions Register entry at the Queen Alexandra’s Military Hospital at Millbank for a 2nd Lieutenant J.H. Rees, C Company, KSLI, on the 12th October 1918 with a GSW, left thigh. He was then aged 25, had completed 4 years service, of which 6 months were in the field. He was moved on on the 25th November 1918 to the Officers Hospital at Arundel.

The medal index card also shows him as “SWB eligible 28th August 1919, LG 21st August 1919”.
(Page 10627, Supplement to the London Gazette, 21 August 1919. Under Territorial Force, Yeomanry, Pembroke. – Lt. J.H. Rees relinquishes his commission on account of ill-health contracted on active service, 22nd August 1919, and retains the rank of Lt.) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31515/supplement/10627/data.pdf

On his MiC his original claim for his medals was undated, but his contact address was shown as Mansel Road, Bonymaen, Swansea. By the time this was formally dealt with in March 1922 his address had changed to Ynisygwas, Cwmavon, Port Talbot.

If John Harry Rees was born in England and Wales, and he was registered with those forenames, (as opposed to John Henry), then there is only one match in the civil birth records for those countries that would tie in with him being aged 25 in October 1918. That was a John Harry Rees, mothers’ maiden name Jones, which was registered with the civil authorities in the Neath District of Glamorganshire in the April to June quarter, 1893.

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a 17 year old Harry Rees, born Cwmavon and a Clerk for a Fishing Company, who was recorded living at 35 Ynisygwas Terrace, Cwnavon. This was the household of his parents John H., (51, Station Master) and Martha Ann, (48). The couple have been married 20 years and have had 8 children, of which 6 were then still alive.

The most likely marriage of his parents was the union of a John Henry Rees to a Martha Ann Jones in the Neath District in Q1 1891. As well as ‘Harry’, the other 5 living children, all born Cwmavon, were still unmarried and living with their parents. A check of their birth details turns up matching individuals in the Neath Civil Registration District, mothers’ maiden name Jones. So looks like a strong match on the civil records side prior to the war.

 

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H.Twigg – Cadet Harry Twigg gazetted Temporary Second Lieutenant in the supplement dated 17th July 1917, Page 7201 Regular Army Manchester Regiment https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7201/

There is a MiC for a 2nd Lieutenant Harry Twigg. Manchester Regiment, who qualified for the Victory Medal and British War Medal only. No date of entry, first theatre or contact details.

The October 1917 British Army List records him as attached to the establishment of the Regular Army Battalions of the Manchester Regiment but serving with the 19th Battalion. (See column 1403e). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106331733

The 19th Battalion had been in France since November 1915. It would be disbanded on the 6th February 1918. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/manchester-regiment/

Battalion War Diary.

23rd August 1917. Ridge Defences WYTSCHAETE (Left Support Battalion Subsector).

Battn. supplied Working Party 1) 1Off 75 OR to RE 2) 2 platoons to Rt Bn in line for carrying 3) wiring party 1Off 90 OR on support trenches of Rt Line Bn.
2/Lt H. TWIGG, 2/Lt G. LEECH and 2/Lt C.H. SPENCER joined Bn for duty.

16th September 1917. 2nd Lt Twigg admitted to hospital.

6th October 1917. Right Line Battalion Subsection, Ridge Defences WYTESCHATE.

11.55 p.m. Our Advanced Right Front Coy Hdqrs in O29 (a) 5.3 was raided by an enemy bombing party of about 20. They evidently entered our position between Nos 3+ 4 Posts + were not detected  until they reached the dugout occupied by Coy HQrs. They then threw several bombs + attempted to blow in the dug-out, wounding 2nd Lt TWIGG + 4 O.R. The party withdrew on 2nd Lt Twigg rushing out + firing his revolver. Our M.G’s were turned on the enemy before they reached their lines, without any apparent result. No prisoners were taken by either side.

No subsequent mention of 2nd Lt Twigg. At disbandment A & B Companys went to the 16th Battalion, and C & D Companys to the 17th Battalion. However there is a list of officers postings on the 6th February1918 and Harry Twigg is not included.

On the November 1918 British Army List he is simply shown as a Second Lieutenant with seniority from the 27th June 1917, attached to the establishment of the Regular Army Battalions of the Manchester Regiment. (See column 1403j) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123103905

Wells.jpg.badedd42356001133bd364f3689534b9.jpg

Previous guess -  Old Wells

The Supplement to the London Gazette, page 17 July, 1917, page 7200, has a Cadet Norman Wells with a Temporary Commission from the 27th June 1917 in the Regular Army, Lancashire Fusiliers. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7200/

There is no “O. Wells” recorded in the index to the October 1917 British Army List. For now I can only assume that “Old” Wells was a nickname.

No obvious MiC for a 2nd Lieutenant Wells serving with the Lancashire Fusiliers – I suspect checking officers papers will be of little help as the signature will be different.

Soldiers Died in the Great War has a Second Lieutenant Norman Wells who died of wounds on the 25th September 1917. He was on the strength of the 1st&2nd Battalions, Lancashire Fusiliers, but attached to the 16th Battalion.

CWGC adds that he is buried Zuydcoote Military Cemetery in France, but has no age or additional family information. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/617835/NORMAN WELLS/

The October 1917 British Army List confirms that the 2nd Lieutenant N. Wells with seniority from the 27th June 1917 and who was posted to the the Regular Army Battalions of the Lancashire Regiment, (the 1st and 2nd), was attached to the 16th Battalion. (See column 1084d). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106328774

The 1917 Probate Calendar records that Norman Wells, of 52, Brompton Road, Rusholme, Manchester, a temporary second lieutenant attached 16th (service) battalion Lancashire Fusiliers died 25 Septembere 1917 at 36 Casualty Clearing Station France or Belgium. Probate was granted at the Manchester Court on the 20th October 1917 to John Charles Whitehurst, barristers clerk. https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Wells&yearOfDeath=1917&page=3#calendar

Four notices appear in the Births, Marriages and Deaths column of the edition of the Manchester Evening News dated 28th September 1917.

WELLS. – Sec. Lieut. NORMAN WELLS, Lancashire Fusiliers, who died of wounds Sept. 25, 1917. Deeply regretted and sadly missed by PEGGY.
WELLS. - Sec. Lieut. NORMAN WELLS, who died of wounds Sept. 25, 1917, age 25. Deeply regretted byhis sister and brother, DOROTHY and GEORGE.
WELLS. - Sec. Lieut. NORMAN WELLS, who died of wounds Sept. 25, 1917. Deeply regretted by Mr. and Mrs. ALEXANDER (mother and dad) and FAMILY. 280, Great Western-street, Moss Side.
WELLS. – Sec. Lieut. NORMAN WELLS, who died of wounds Sept. 25, 1917. Deeply regretted by AUNTY, UNCLE, and DORIS. 2 Victoria-street, Rusholme.

In the absence of a picture of Norman Wells so that a comparison can be made, for now there is no obvious way to rule Norman in or out as a candidate for “Old Wells”.

Cheers,
Peter

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Sad not that long after commission then

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