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19th officer cadet I’d love if any one recognised any names


arantxa
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I only found one after a long time 

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Dear arantxa,

Which one did you find?

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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I found J B Parks 2nd Lieut  Essex Regt

and HW Barr temporary 2nd Lt

W Simpson  Lt

that was about it im afraid but i find it hard to read the names

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That is good thinking !!!!!

I will print that off

So if your an officer cadet can you then be sent to any regiment or do you get a choice ....so for an example if you had a strong wiltshire accent could you be sent to the civil service rifles ?

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And will you automatically go to territorial rifles or regt

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2 hours ago, arantxa said:

That is good thinking !!!!!

I will print that off

So if your an officer cadet can you then be sent to any regiment or do you get a choice ....so for an example if you had a strong wiltshire accent could you be sent to the civil service rifles ?

Officer cadets were generally earmarked for (sponsored by) specific regiments, frequently those with which they have some association through geography, family ties, or service in the ranks.  Even so there was occasional horse trading going on with particularly good cadets sometimes poached by instructors for ‘their’ regiment (whatever it happened to be).  As a general principle it was frowned on for men commissioned from the ranks to return to the battalion from whence they came, although it did occasionally happen.  Territorial units selected their own officers independently.

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8 hours ago, arantxa said:

And will you automatically go to territorial rifles or regt

The Territorials selected their own officers, regular and special reserve officers had their own selection procedures, and a shorter wartime commissioning course administered by RMC Sandhurst.  Wartime only commissions for the Service Battalions were trained and administered via the officer cadet battalions.  Training gradually became more efficient and more standardised with a curriculum influenced by field army experience.  Nevertheless, the type of commission that a man had, whether it be regular, or special reserve, Territorial, or wartime (hostilities only), would determine where and how you received your officer training.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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9 hours ago, esco said:

I was starting from much the same point but was dragged out shoe shopping - I know what I'd rather be doing, (but sadly so does Mrs C) :)

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Looks to me like either Eric P or Eric D Chamberlain.

Looking for a Lieutenant Eric Chamberlain in the National Archive catalogue brings up one match - an Eric Dunstan Chamberlain, formerly a Private in what from his service number appears to be one of the Public School Battalions - PS/10869, who first landed in Salonika in 1916. No date of commissioning is shown on the MiC, but he was Killed in Action as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment on the 30th November 1917.

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(Image courtesy of Ancestry).

CWGC shows him with the 1/5th Battalion, L.N.L, and he has no known grave, being remembered on the Cambrai Memorial. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1751853/ERIC DUNSTAN CHAMBERLAIN/

Eric is on page 7200 of the edition of the supplement linked to by @esco

The list actually starts at page 7199, covers Regular Army Officers and end towards the bottom of page 7201. It then goes onto a list of Territorial Force Officers, but I couldn't obviously spot any matches - but I was only trying to work from the signatures along the top of the picture. The Regular Army men were commissioned with effect from the 27th June 1917.

But working through there were more gaps than matches. I went for the rarest of the names I felt relatively confident about, C. Waite, and tried the National Archive. There was only one likely match for an officer with that name who has no middle names and who has a MiC. Lieutenant Charles Waite, West Yorkshire Regiment, formely Lance-Corporal 13975 Charles Waite. He was commissioned 3rd July 1917. he would die of wounds on the 28th March 1918. But I couldn't find him in the Gazette.

So here is my best guess at the names signed along the top and a possible match in the London Gazette.

J.B. Parks
A Bunbury\ Banbury \ Beauchamp
H. Irvine
L.O. Lloyd
J.O. Malley \ J. O'Malley
John Woodyard – Possibly Page 7200 Middlesex Regiment John Alfred Woodgate
T.R. Armstrong – Page 7199 West Yorkshire Regiment Thomas Rodham Armstrong.
C McDonald
C.Waite
R. Brough
D L Day
W. Hall – Possibly Page 7200 East Surrey Regiment, Walter Sydney Hall or Page 7201 Rifle Brigade Walter Henry Hill.
G.A. Low \ Zoe\ Lois? Page 7200 Royal Scots Fusiliers, George Alexander Low
M. Beattie
M. Rigby
E.D Chamberlain – see above
F.B. Humphrey
R.S Wood – page 7199 Royal Scots Regiment, Robert Smith Wood.

Page 7199: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7199/data.pdf
Page 7200: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7200/data.pdf
Page 7201: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7201/data.pdf

I can find possible MiCs for some of the others who were commissioned in the summer of 1917, but so far can't make the link through the London Gazette.

Have got to take a break as my brain is starting to hurt:)

Peter

Edited by PRC
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PRC. Peter 

I was hoping you would see this thread ….you so good on the signatures 

Thanks 

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Fantastic work Peter.  Kudos as ever.  It’s sobering to reflect on the eventual fate of the young men who perhaps with some jubilation signed their names on the photo to mark what must have seemed to them a celebratory occasion. 

Edited by FROGSMILE
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I agree with you Frogsmile 

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Brough is a real Orcadian name.  I'd offer "R Brough" as 2Lt Robert Sibbard Calderwood Brough MC of the Lovat Scouts.  The headdress matches. Commissioned 1917.

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What’s an Orcadian name ?

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I see it’s Orkney Islands it’s always good to learn new things 

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So unless I’m missing something. I’m counting 20 men standing in the back row but only 18 signatures, so it can’t be taken for granted that the signatures relate to any one particular man.

My next step was to look at the British Army Monthly List to see if any names leapt out with the right sort of date of commissioning. I always allow a few months to account for time lag between appearing in the London Gazette and it being reflected in the Montly List. I went for the October 1917 Monthly List on that basis.

As a check I looked for Eric Dunstan Chamberlain. The list in the Supplement to the London Gazette of the 17th July 1917 shows the cadets were given temporary commissions in the Regular Army, so not surprisingly he turns up on the establishment of the 1st and 2nd Battalions of the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, shown with a seniority of the 27th June 1917. However while the London Gazette shows him as as one of 7 cadets commissioned into that Regiment, the October 1917 Monthly List shows 37 Second Lieutenants with the same  seniority date. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106330985

Unfortunately not seeing any additional candidates for the names on this photo, but would appear a number of Officer Cadet courses finished around about the same time.

Taking a further look:-

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J.B. Parks. Identified by @arantxa as an Essex Regiment man.

Unfortunately unless he was one of the instructors, J.B. Parks according to the October 1917 British Army Monthly list had been a Second Lieutenant since the 2nd December 1915 and had been a temporary Captain since the 1st March 1916. The October 1917 list has a second entry showing him attached to the New Zealand Contingent.

There is a MiC for a James Balfour Parks, originally Rifleman 1441 6th Bn Liverpool Regiment and subsequently Second Lieutenant and Acting Captain Kings Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment. However his MiC shows him commissioned 24th October 1916.

There are no other J.B. Parkes in the Index to the October 1917 list.

The index shows a J.B. Parke – but he was a Lieutenant in our old favourite, the 18th (Reserve) Battalion, Royal Irish Regiment with seniority from the 1st March 1916.:)

There is also a J.B. Park. But he was 5th Cameronians attached 6th Battalion as Transport Officer, and although a Second-Lieutenant, his seniority was from the 5th February 1915.

So for now looks like we need some more gueses as to what the signature actually says.

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A Bunbury\ Banbury \ Beauchamp

There is only one A. Banbury in the October 1917 List, however the column reference given for him in the index, 2415c, does not exist. The columns on either side refer to Captains and Lieutenants in the Territorial Force General Reserve.

There is an A.E. Bunbury but he was a Lieutenant with the 6th Battalion Australiam Infantry, with seniority from the 19th February 1915.

There is no A. Beauchamp.

So likewise time for guesses as to what the signature actually is.

 

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H. Irvine

Supplement to the London Gazette 20 July 1917 page 7421 as per @esco. Cadet Herbert Irvine to be a 2nd Lt in the Territorial Force w.e.f. 27th June 1917.

A 2nd Lieutenant H. Irvine is in the October 1917 British Army Monthly List on the strength of the Welsh Horse, Territorial Force. His seniority date is the 27th June 1917. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106324297

His Medal Index card records him as him as Herbert Irvine. He went to France with the Welsh Horse Yeomanry on the 10th February 1918.

When he applied for his medals in May 1921 he initially had an address of Rose Cottage, Glan Conway, but subsequently he notified a change to St Albans, Victoria Drive, Llandudno Junction, North Wales.

Looking at the Long, Long Trail it looks at though there wasn’t any unit of the Welsh Horse Yeomany in France in February 1918.

The June 1918 British Army Monthly List shows him attached to the 9th Battalion, Welsh Regiment. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103552202

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L.O. Lloyd

On 05/09/2021 at 00:58, esco said:

L.O. LLoyd  I believe is L. Oldroyd .

Lewis Oldroyd here https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30193/supplement/7420

Supplement to the London Gazette 20 July 1917 page 7420 as per @esco. Cadet Lewis Oldroyd to be a 2nd Lt in the Territorial Force w.e.f. 27th June 1917.

No obvious MiC.

On the October 1917 Army list he is shown on the strength of the Norfol Yeomanry, along with F.B. Humphrey. Both are 2nd Lieutenants with seniority from the 27th June 1917.

May be a co-incidendence but on the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a 15 year old Lewis Oldroyd, a Farmers Son working on farm, born St. Germans, Norfolk, who was recorded living at Park Farm, Wormegay, King’s Lynn, Norfolk. This was the household of his widower father Joseph Oldroyd, a Farmer, born Tilney, Norfolk.

A Lewis Oldroyd married a nurse, Mary Stibbon, from the local VAD Hospital in Downham, Norfolk, in 1919. https://www.downhammarkethistory.co.uk/2020/11/18/vad-auxiliary-hospital-downham-market-1914-1919/

A Lewis Oldroyd, born 22nd January 1896, would pass away in the Wayland District of Norfolk in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1970.

Cheers,
Peter

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Dear esco,

Well spotted!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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2 hours ago, esco said:

A. Bunbury/ Banbury/ Beauchamp

possibly A . Duxbury https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30187/supplement/7199

Arthur Duxbury gazetted Second Lieutenant Royal Lancaster Regiment, Regular Army,could be a strong contender.

MiC shows he was initially Private 52579 Liverpool Regiment. He served in France.

The October 1917 Army List shows him on the strength of the 1st & 2nd Battalions but attached to the 1/5th Battalion, Royal Lancaster Regiment. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106327201

MiC notes he is Deceased 9th April 1918. CWGC shows him as 5th Battalion, aged 23, deceased 9th April 1918, buried at Chocques Military Cemetery in France and "Son of the late William Thomas Duxbury". https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/166207/A DUXBURY/

His mother applied for his medals. Mrs. W.T. Duxbury gave her address as 9 Alexandra Terrace, Moorside. The test, as it will be for a number of these is finding another photograph for comparison.

Cheers,
Peter

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Yes 

I wonder at the end of the research taking into account this was taken in 1917 how many unfortunately were killed 

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945540464_Malleypossibly.jpg.1b8f583619ba7ae89a221ca879355660.jpg

My initial guess was J.O. Malley \ J. O'Malley

Still no better ideas than that.

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John Woodgate - Cadet gazetted Second Lieutenant in the supplement dated 17th July 1917, Page 7200 Middlesex Regiment, John Alfred Woodgate.

MiC shows him as Private \ Acting Sergeant 1151 Rifles Brigade, then 1149 and 25316 Suffolk Regiment. Went to France, probably with the Rifle Brigade, on the 20th May 1915. Applied for his medals in July 1921 when his contact address was 62 Endell Street, London,W.C.2.

The Octobet 1917 Army List has him on the establishment of the Regular Army Battalions of the Middlesex Regiment, but attached to the 18th Battalion. (The National Library of Scotland scan of the relevant page in the October 1917 list is unclear, but confirmed from the November 1917 list). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/104133800

The18th (Service) Battalion (1st Public Works Pioneers), Middlesex Regiment was the Pioneer Battalion of the 33rd Division. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-duke-of-cambridges-own-middlesex-regiment/

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T.R. Armstrong – Cadet gazetted Second Lieutenant in the supplement dated 17th July 1917, Page 7199 West Yorkshire Regiment, Thomas Rodham Armstrong.

MiC shows he was originally Private 2195 Thomas Rodham Armstrong, West Yorkshire Regiment, and he landed in France on the 15th April 1915. He was discharged to a Commission, and went on to serve with the West Yorkshire Regiment as a 2nd Lieutenant and as a Captain in what the National Archive has transcribed (incorrectly) as the Army Education Corps.

He applied for his medals in July 1922. His contact address then was 52 Hazlewood Avenue. Jesmond, Newcastle upon Tyne.

The October 1917 British Army Monthly List shows him on the establishment  of the Regular Army Battalions of the West Yorkshire Regiment, but attached to the 15th Battalion. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106328290

The 15th (Service) Battalion (1st Leeds) had been in France since March 1916 and were part of the 93rd Brigade of the 31st Division. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-prince-of-waless-own-west-yorkshire-regiment/

Ancestry says it has Private Members Photos of a Thomas Rodham (Roddy) Armstrong, born 13th July 1893.

Apparently he gets a mention in “The Leeds Pals: A Handbook for Researchers”, by the Leeds Pals Volunteer Researches, but it’s not on the pages visible on Google books. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZSVnDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT281&lpg=PT281&dq=Thomas+Rodham+Armstrong&source=bl&ots=2EpA-YhICb&sig=ACfU3U0U-Gaht6zu6CPVykS2bs-3TOG0GA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiHsJeQ4ujyAhUUiFwKHQP8BG8Q6AF6BAgNEAM#v=onepage&q=Thomas Rodham Armstrong&f=false

Their website has a biography for Thomas which references him joining No.19 Officer Cadet Battalion at Pirbright.

Thomas Rodham was born in Gosforth, Newcastle, Northumberland on 13th July 1893.  His father was William Armstrong (1840-1936), a horse dealer, and his mother Marianne Julia Pittman (1852-1926).  His two brothers were Henry Ernest (1892-1916) and Edwin Ormiston (1896-1931).  Henry was a 1st July 1916 casualty, having been killed as a Sergeant (16/411) with the 16th Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers.  Edwin served as a Private in the Labour Corps and was wounded in 1918 but survived the war.  Both his elderly parents wrote to the War Office requesting Edwin’s early release, due their age and ill health and their son’s injuries.  It appears the War Office failed to respond as Edwin was released long after the Armistice.

Thomas’s father William had previously been married to Jane Eliza Sanderson who died in 1890; he therefore also had six half-sisters and three half-brothers (two who served during the war, one apparently dying of the ‘effects of war’).  Thomas was educated at the West Riding County Council School in Knarsborough and later was employed as a Tailor’s Cutter.  By 1911 he had become an Apprentice Tailor and was living at Holmside, Borobridge Road, Knaresborough.

He enlisted as 2195 (later changed to 200574) Private T R Armstrong in the 1/5th Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment on 3rd September 1914.  He embarked on the SS Invicta at Folkestone on 15th April 1915, disembarking at Boulogne the following day.  Six months later he was wounded in action, sustaining a bullet graze to the hand, and returned to duty after spending a week at the Dressing Station.  Promoted to Lance Corporal on 28th July 1916 he returned to England to take up a commission on 31st January 1917.  After attending officer training from 9th March at No.19 Officer Cadet Battalion, Pirbright, Surrey, he was appointed 2nd Lieutenant in the West Yorkshire Regiment on 25th June 1917.  He joined the 15th Battalion on 19th July 1917 and attended a course of instruction at XIII Corps School in September.  In December 1917 he moved to the newly formed 15/17th Battalion, on the amalgamation of the original two battalions, and in January 1918 returned to England on leave.  The German Spring Offensive commenced in early 1918 and on 24th March 1918, when the Leeds Pals were at St Leger, Thomas received a gunshot wound to the head and was returned to the UK for treatment.  The Battalion suffered heavy losses that month with the war diary recording 19 officers and 595 other ranks either killed, wounded or missing (many were captured).

After recovering from his wounds he was transferred to the Labour Corps and joined 262 Area Employment Company.  He relinquished his commission on 24th October 1919, giving his final address as Brooklyn Park Avenue, Scriven, Knaresborough.  However, his war medals were sent to an address in Newcastle on Tyne.  Thomas married Dorothea Brown (1895-1957) in 1920 and they had three children, Geoffrey Stevenson (1922-2010), Thomas Rodham Jnr (1922-1942) and Valerie Marian (1934-1989).

In 1939 Thomas resided with his wife and two of their children at 22 Whitley Bay, Northumberland, Dorothea was listed as an ARP Messenger.  Thomas died on 18th November 1974 at Brewood in South Staffordshire.  https://leedspalsvolunteerresearchers.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/thomas-rodham-armstrong-lost-a-brother-on-first-day-of-the-somme-and-a-son-in-ww2/

His 20 year old son, Flight Sergeant 574713 Thomas Rodham Armstrong would be lost with the crew of Lancaster ED311 of 83 Squadron on the 23rd November 1942 when it crashed into the channel on the homebound leg after being hit by flak while crossing the Normandy Cross. CWGC records he was the son of Thomas Rodham Armstrong and Dorothea Armstrong, of Monkseaton, Northumberland. http://www.rafcommands.com/database/wardead/details.php?qnum=52550

Peter

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