test tunnels and bunkers

[Arne Vandendriessche]

Hi evryone.

Someone gave me some cards, including one with a sign in the legend and then: test dug-outs.
then on the card itself, for example, at Wheel you have two such signs that are connected with lines. So I'm guessing the semicircles are exits or bunkers and the lines are tunnels connecting them? Can someone check if there was a tunnel at Wieltje that ran from (28.C.28.b.32.74) to (28.C.23.c.96.08)?
Then I know whether I'm correct about the legend of that map and whether the map itself is also correct.
Attached is the legend and that possible dug-out/tunnel.

Arne

[Arne Vandendriessche]

if you enter in the search bar at tmapper: wheel you can indicate, among other things, two dug outs. one is the entrance and the other the exit.
The entrance is located at one of the semicircles and the exit is elsewhere.

Arne

 

[Arne Vandendriessche]

If there was a tunnel it would normally be an English tunnel

Arne

[TEW]

I doubt if the black lines are tunnels. Could be telephone wire to link up the dugouts. It could be that RE signals were testing a new system by setting up existing dugouts with a new system. The one in 28.c seems to have another significance, a battalion HQ perhaps.

The maps I've looked at shows the 23.b dugout to be in enemy territory, it must have been in British hands at some point.

Suspect a unit diary will have something on these. The map must have a date?

TEW 

[mebu]

The map would appear to be from a communications or signals company, with exchange points. 

Peter

 

[WhiteStarLine]

4 hours ago, mebu said:

communications or signals company, with exchange points

Plus one for this as this was a major task for them, not helped by the local soldiers often helping themselves to the material to improve thier own dugouts!

[AOK4]

It would be interesting to see the full map. I have seen 'training maps' as well, which do not necessarily present a real state of affairs.

[WhiteStarLine]

Here is a Signals Division map from the 36A SW & 36A SE areas from 24/06/1918 showing cable runs for the 10 Infantry Brigade going into test points - areas where signals staff frequently tested major communications trunks to narrow down points of failure (given most of the cable was deeply buried to avoid shellfire),  A test dugout is therefore a more exposed area where the staff testing these points need protection.  Map courtesy IWM / WFA:

[Arne Vandendriessche]

It was a normal trench map from 1917 with the lines drawn on it afterwards. The black line may be telephone wire. The card is too big to post but if you want to see it send me your email and I'll send it via we transfer.

Arne

[mebu]

Here's an example (possibly the last remaining) of a test point telephone exchange. Many visitors to the WF will have seen this. 

From winter '17/18, marked on a map from earlier in 1916, the front is now on the eastern side of the ridge. This was named DB, others were MR, CD, LB, AV, all connected to HQ in cellars at La Hutte, Hill 63.

Peter

 

PS mail sent

[TEW]

If it helps to tie down possible RE/Signals diaries then 25th Field Ambulance had their HQ at 28.C 28.b.3.7 in Dec 1917 supporting 8th Division, 25th Infantry Brigade attack.

25 IB diary has their HQ in 'Weitje Dugouts' 28.C.28.b.5.7 for 8/1/18 to 17/1/18. Map ref is a little off.

The advance RAPs cleared by 25 FA were as far East as D.6.a, so well into the enemy lines as shown on the map.

TEW

 

[Arne Vandendriessche]

thanks evrybody

 

Arne

 

[mebu]

Arne, thanks for the map and the date. Where the word "Dugouts" is used, I suspect it is the loosest sense of the word: as you say the map is from 1917, the battle was still on and the test points would have been in whatever shelter they could find: British dugouts/shelters in  what had been the British lines, eg at Wieltje but those further forward may have been in former German shelters/bunkers etc.

 

Peter

Edited 26 August , 2021 by mebu

[Arne Vandendriessche]

Thanks Peter

[Arne Vandendriessche]

There is still a lot of telephone wire in the ground. I once found a piece on an archaeological survey (after the survey) in a ditch. I get really mad at what they leave there. shovels, leather belts with the buckle attached. Arne

[WhiteStarLine]

Here is a good example, from the US Signal Corps.  It is labelled Dugout intended to protect the "test Point" on buried cable, Belgium, August 18, 1918

.

[Arne Vandendriessche]

thank you