Moonraker Posted 13 August , 2021 Share Posted 13 August , 2021 Over the years we've several times discussed the "legacy" aspects of our collections and notes and how best to make them available to libraries and museums. On one occasion a member warned of forms of storage becoming dated and obsolete. This seems to be the case with CDs and DVDs. My new PC tower (admittedly a cheap one) came with no CD drive (despite the assurance of the sales person), and I bought an external one for occasional use. And the other day I noticed doubts that anyone used CDs or DVDs anymore. I have 440 pages of word-processed notes copied on to a CD for, perhaps, the eventual benefit of a museum or library. This would be far easier to word-search than leafing through a print-out. And I have 200 or so images stored on various PC files, with back-ups on CDs. I imagine that a conscientious museum or library might upload my data to its own system, but resource problems might mean they would attach less importance to my bequest than I would like. I'm a technophobe and lag behind current thinking, so would be interested in thoughts on this. I'm not keen on Cloud (especially having recently had mega problems with a voracious Dropbox update). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosee Posted 13 August , 2021 Share Posted 13 August , 2021 Regarding storage, I think it is best to store any important data in several ways. It is difficult to predict what the future of data storage will look like, so a few copies are a good idea. There are archival grade DVDs that last longer, several decades, which you may be using. There will likely be ways of transfering the data regardless of the format you use. Portable hard drives are also a useful way to back up information, these vary in cost depending on storage capacity and quality but can be great for storing photographs and larger files. Even copies on a USB stick can be a good back up. I also store copies of data on One Drive which is part of Office 365. Mainly because it is very accessible but of course dependent on internet access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 13 August , 2021 Share Posted 13 August , 2021 It is a problem on several levels, operating system, software and file formats to name but 3. How often have we seen posters have difficulty posting files on this forum when they possess files in anything but the prescribed types, jpg, png, csv, rtf etc? We recently had a slight hiccup in backing up a prolific local historian's life work into Word (Windows 10) when his original work was in Word (Apple). Lots of empty duplicate files appeared which initially made us think the transfer had failed. But that was just a folder display issue. The safest way to store data has to be in the cloud - One Drive, Google Drive, BT Cloud are all free. There are paid for clouds also. Initially, save your basic images as jpg, jpeg or gifs, higher quality ones as tiffs. Save documents as .doc , which will probably be readable for the forseeable future. In house, store them on 2 separate hard disk drives, they are cheap and stable, About £100 for 4TB. But they can fail. CDs, DVDs and Blu-Ray are tempting, but longevity is a serious unknown. Do not, repeat, do not depend on flashpens/USB sticks to store anything of any value. Only use them for instantaneous transfer between machines. They fail or corrupt too frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 13 August , 2021 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2021 25 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: ... The safest way to store data has to be in the cloud - One Drive, Google Drive, BT Cloud are all free. There are paid for clouds also. Initially, save your basic images as jpg, jpeg or gifs, higher quality ones as tiffs ... Do not, repeat, do not depend on flashpens/USB sticks to store anything of any value. Only use them for instantaneous transfer between machines. They fail or corrupt too frequently. Thanks for your prompt replies. I think that Cloud storage is free only up to a point. One issue I had with Dropbox was that when after updating it started gobbling up documents and photos, exceeding my allowance and wanting a yearly sub of £199. Most of the capacity was taken up by photos, only half of which I wanted to back up. When setting up my new PC, I found Microsoft very keen for me to use Edge (with TWO pop-ups asking me to do so on my start-up page) and OneDrive so I'm using the latter now. I appreciate that some expense and effort are necessary to ensure that one's bequest is in a useable form. And I bear in mind that not all institutions regard my material with as much enthusiasm as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knittinganddeath Posted 13 August , 2021 Share Posted 13 August , 2021 Can you contact the museum to which you intend to leave your collection and ask them if they have any suggestions or preferences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereoview Paul Posted 13 August , 2021 Share Posted 13 August , 2021 The issue with cloud storage could be access - if it's a paid for service and you stop paying (health issues, financial issues, locked up in jail!) how long is that available. If you get run over by that proverbial bus are the passwords known to those around you, or even that you precious data even exists on such a server? I am personally still using archive DVD 'M' disks but these are getting more expensive. I think ultimately organisations such as this forum may have to have a cloud that we can all contribute to thus removing the risks to individual data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefatigable Posted 13 August , 2021 Share Posted 13 August , 2021 Be aware also that Windows 10 updates have, for a lot of users, removed the facility to recognise a internal CD and/or DVD drive. In my household we have two laptops with current versions of windows 10 including updates, one has had the CD/DVD access removed yet the other has not. regards Indefatigable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereoview Paul Posted 13 August , 2021 Share Posted 13 August , 2021 The problem with internal drives was a temporary glitch with one update - go to windows update and force it to look for the latest update that should solve your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 13 August , 2021 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2021 5 hours ago, knittinganddeath said: Can you contact the museum to which you intend to leave your collection and ask them if they have any suggestions or preferences? Yes, I contacted several national and local museums three or four years ago. One that seemed the keenest did outline its preferences, but these might have changed. Indeed, my own feelings about my postcard collection and its fate have changed, but I won't take this thread off at a tangent to enlarge on this. And I wonder how often my notes on military Wiltshire would be consulted. I have seven large files of photocopies, maps, plans in addition to the 440 pages of word-processed notes that I mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 13 August , 2021 Share Posted 13 August , 2021 (edited) There is one sure way to archive it, you could have it professionally made up into a couple of books and deposit one at the British library. Edited 13 August , 2021 by Knotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 13 August , 2021 Share Posted 13 August , 2021 You could upload it as a digital book to the Internet Archive, Archive.org See my previous topic "Upload your transcriptions to Archive.org (Internet Archive)" https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/230450-upload-your-transcriptions-to-archiveorg-internet-archive/?tab=comments#comment-2635488 https://help.archive.org/hc/en-us/categories/360000153592-Archive-org Internet Archive Help articles. Scroll to heading Uploading You might need to convert to a pdf first. Not too sure about that aspect. Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 14 August , 2021 Share Posted 14 August , 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, MaureenE said: You might need to convert to a pdf first. Not too sure about that aspect. That's easy with a Word document (even if it has images and tables embedded). File-Print, then instead of selecting your printer, choose Microsoft Print to PDF. You can also use MS P2PDF to save web pages as pdfs. Edited 14 August , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 14 August , 2021 Author Share Posted 14 August , 2021 13 hours ago, MaureenE said: You could upload it as a digital book to the Internet Archive, Archive.org Where I fear it might be hidden away and languish undiscovered. Last year I spent some time and effort looking for a particular book using a variety of search terms, but never did locate it. Luckily I had a bookmark to it that gave me access. Pragmatically one might wonder how often the results of one's labours would ever be consulted, whatever archive it is bequeathed to. Nearly everyone interested in a particular Wiltshire camp, say, would find enough information and images to satisfy them on the Web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knittinganddeath Posted 14 August , 2021 Share Posted 14 August , 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Moonraker said: Where I fear it might be hidden away and languish undiscovered. In my opinion this would be even more true if you bequeathed your collection to an ambivalent or, worse, uninterested institution that has no interest/funds for either cataloguing it or making scans & other documentation publicly available. A collection that can only be consulted onsite necessarily limits its audience. On the internet, anyone with an interest and some tenacity will be able to find it. Tag it well with relevant terms and it will be a boon to many people. I started out looking for free patterns for soldiers' socks in online archives and ended up teaching myself to read German Sütterlin script. Now I transcribe and translate soldiers' correspondence. Maybe your collection, available online, will inspire someone else to do something similar. Edited 14 August , 2021 by knittinganddeath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Ference Posted 14 August , 2021 Share Posted 14 August , 2021 General best practices are to keep: - 1 local copy on physical media - 1 remote copy on physical media, preferably of a different sort - 1 copy in a cloud, replication service, etc. This protects either physical copy in the even of fire, theft, etc; both physical copies in the event of catastrophe, and the cloud copy in the event of malicious hacking. What I do is back up everything to a 10 TB drive whenever I visit my folks, as well as store everything on a server with unlimited space; I back-up to it every few months. This ensures that I will never lose more than a few months' scanning, writing, transcribing, and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exXIX Posted 14 August , 2021 Share Posted 14 August , 2021 I read this thread with interest, have you contacted your local county archives, I would think they would be interested, there are depts within my local authority who are paid to look after local heritage, contact your local councillor and ask...When someone has taken a great deal of time and effort to create these records then it should be held somewhere...good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 15 August , 2021 Share Posted 15 August , 2021 12 hours ago, Moonraker said: Where I fear it might be hidden away and languish undiscovered. Last year I spent some time and effort looking for a particular book using a variety of search terms, but never did locate it. Luckily I had a bookmark to it that gave me access. I am aware that there are some books which do not show up in the Internet Archive Search. Some years ago, there were some books withdrawn which had been uploaded by the Digital Library of India. However they appeared to have been withdrawn from the Search only, the actual books files were still accessible if you had the URL bookmarked. Apart from situations like this, I have not had any problems with the Search, other than the fact that there may be spelling errors in titles etc, or the author may not have been included, but this is a problem caused by the uploader, not the Internet Archive. This problem is vey common with books which came from the Digital Library of India. For the Internet Archive Search , you can Search by metadata (titles etc), or you can Search in the text itself. The Internet Archive contents also seem to be available to Google, as a search in Google quite often brings up a result from the Internet Archive. So if you uploaded to the Internet Archive, a general Google search should bring a result to the person searching. I have uploaded a number of files (46 to be precise) to the Internet Archive over recent weeks, all downloaded from somewhere else, mainly Google Books. All except two uploaded very easily, one of these two uploaded after about 24 hours and the other I needed to contact Internet Archive admin. People have found these books, one has 51 views after 3 weeks. I would echo knittinganddeath's comments "On the internet, anyone with an interest and some tenacity will be able to find it. Tag it well with relevant terms and it will be a boon to many people". Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 15 August , 2021 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2021 21 hours ago, exXIX said: I read this thread with interest, have you contacted your local county archives, I would think they would be interested, there are depts within my local authority who are paid to look after local heritage, contact your local councillor and ask...When someone has taken a great deal of time and effort to create these records then it should be held somewhere...good luck. I contacted various potential recipients several years ago, and two or three were interested. The keenest did advise on ways and means. One reason for starting this thread was to check what the latest thinking generally was about likely media. Not only do my seven large files contain those 440 pages of word-processing but many photocopies and print-outs from websites. Perhaps something to sort out as I sink further into dotage. (I also have approaching 3,000 "paper collectables". When last I raised "legacy & bequests" here on the GWF, I mused that these might better serve posterity by being sold so others could acquire and enjoy the better items rather than them gathering dust in a storeroom.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exXIX Posted 15 August , 2021 Share Posted 15 August , 2021 21 minutes ago, Moonraker said: I contacted various potential recipients several years ago, and two or three were interested. The keenest did advise on ways and means. One reason for starting this thread was to check what the latest thinking generally was about likely media. Not only do my seven large files contain those 440 pages of word-processing but many photocopies and print-outs from websites. Perhaps something to sort out as I sink further into dotage. (I also have approaching 3,000 "paper collectables". When last I raised "legacy & bequests" here on the GWF, I mused that these might better serve posterity by being sold so others could acquire and enjoy the better items rather than them gathering dust in a storeroom.) I see what you mean, can you copy and paste all the pages into one word doc say, then self publish using the nonfiction book template in word, any electronic printouts and photocopies can be scanned into pdf format. The long version would be to use Onenote say and create a series of Notebooks, any digital copies should be backed up in a couple of different storage devices or cloud services, as I found to my cost with only onenote cloud storage, it's very easy to delete when you have old sausage fingers like me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 15 August , 2021 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2021 47 minutes ago, exXIX said: I see what you mean, can you copy and paste all the pages into one word doc say If removed from the files, the contents would make a pile of paper 18 inches high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted 15 August , 2021 Share Posted 15 August , 2021 the problem with storage is format, look at records, vinyl took over from wax disc, tape took over from vinyl, CD's, came in and ended the life of cassettes , 8 track??? anyone. so we were told CD's would be the end all... until floppy disc arrived, then dvd , mp3 and so on. if that wasnt bad enough, we then get on to dos, win, win xp etc the old days of free word are limited, Ive got files done in basic word, updated every year upto xp pro/office pro. now with office what ever the new one is, I cant read them, SO, Ive had to resort to Open Office. problem being OO wants to save everything in OO or OO version of word. this then causes problems with my other older laptop, which wont read the files once converted. If we had a crystal ball we might be able to predict the future, but then would all be millionaires and not be bothered. I think the only answer , to your dilemma ., is , to publish in book form, they have basically stayed the same since mr Caxton printed and still readable. these can then be transcribed to kindle or whatever the next update is. problem with museums is they dont now what systems will come out and as the discussion we have on the British medal forum regarding donating medals to museums, they are likely to get left in a cupboard, then when no room , get sold off. Once you donate your works to them , its theirs to do what they want to do with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lang Posted 15 August , 2021 Share Posted 15 August , 2021 24 minutes ago, chaz said: the problem with storage is format, look at records, vinyl took over from wax disc, tape took over from vinyl, CD's, came in and ended the life of cassettes , 8 track??? anyone. so we were told CD's would be the end all... until floppy disc arrived, then dvd , mp3 and so on. if that wasnt bad enough, we then get on to dos, win, win xp etc the old days of free word are limited, Ive got files done in basic word, updated every year upto xp pro/office pro. now with office what ever the new one is, I cant read them, SO, Ive had to resort to Open Office. problem being OO wants to save everything in OO or OO version of word. this then causes problems with my other older laptop, which wont read the files once converted. If we had a crystal ball we might be able to predict the future, but then would all be millionaires and not be bothered. I think the only answer , to your dilemma ., is , to publish in book form, they have basically stayed the same since mr Caxton printed and still readable. these can then be transcribed to kindle or whatever the next update is. problem with museums is they dont now what systems will come out and as the discussion we have on the British medal forum regarding donating medals to museums, they are likely to get left in a cupboard, then when no room , get sold off. Once you donate your works to them , its theirs to do what they want to do with. I agree to use the 'printed book' method. Vinyl, plastic, et al, all deteriorate over time, so the storage method would have to be carefully selected. Similarly, the equipment used to 'store' the data will be obsolete tomorrow - actually, yesterday - you'll learn about its obsolescence tomorrow. So it's not just the material, but the equipment used. Discs fail, as do disc drives, etc. Corporations spend £m on backup solutions, and for security, legal, financial, and audit reasons they store a second copy of their backup tapes off-site (in the event of a fire, or other emergency). It is inherent in the business model of the electronics industry to make your 'new' equipment obsolete and to sell you another 'new' one. Corporate $pending is where the electronics industry concentrate their efforts, chasing the huge investments by corporations. Storing 'in the cloud' is a very bad mis-nomer; there is no such thing. Hardware failures happen every day of the week. Think also about 'virus' and 'malware' infection. There's also file compression to consider as a space-saver - but that too will change by tomorrow (or yesterday). It's a 'sell, sell, sell' world if you continue to consider a 'technology' solution. The 'printed book' solution will not be changed by any form of known technology for a long, long time. Kindest Regards, Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 15 August , 2021 Share Posted 15 August , 2021 The UK Atomic Energy Authority (UKAEA) announced quite some time ago that it had decided to keep all its archives on acid-free paper, as the least corruptible format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 16 August , 2021 Author Share Posted 16 August , 2021 10 hours ago, chaz said: ... I think the only answer , to your dilemma ., is , to publish in book form, they have basically stayed the same since mr Caxton printed and still readable ... It would be a very large book, incorporating that 18-inch pile of A4 paper and almost 3,000 items of paper ephemera! The IWM wasn't interested and pointed out that it already had copies of my books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knittinganddeath Posted 16 August , 2021 Share Posted 16 August , 2021 My advice: don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Based on the suggestions in this thread, it seems like it would be best to split your book into multiple volumes for print publication AND upload the digital files to Internet Archive/the cloud AND keep copies on archival CDs/external hard drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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