Family history research

[lisar]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum. I am researching my family history. I'm currently looking into the military history of my great grandfather Charles Hall from Swindon. I was wondering if anyone could tell me from the uniform in this photo if he was in the army/navy ? as I am a real novice in this field. I realise that this is probably a WW2 photo but it could give me a start with my research & also he may have been old enough to have taken part in WW1 . 

Many thanks for your help.

Lisa.

[Knotty]

Hi Lisa and welcome

You were correct when said this is probably a WW2 uniform, and it is definitely army, and as you say it looks as if he may have served in WW1. There are several WW2 forums, a quick Google may help you select one, WW2.com is one that springs to mind..

 His name is Charles Hall from Swindon, do you have anymore information, a full name maybe, birth place and date of birth, when was he married, these details would be a good starting point and help in tracing his military background. 

[lisar]

Thanks so much for confirming that it is an army uniform, I thought as much but wanted to be sure.  Yes I do have his dob, birth place, marriage details etc, I'm using Ancestry & Fold 3 & can't seem to find any trace of his military career, which is strange as i've been able to find out information on other relatives & I have a picture of him in uniform!. I'm not sure which battalion he would have signed up to in Swindon? that would be a good lead.  The only thing I have found is a record of a Charles Hall with the same dob who was a boy on a ship in 1914 & a record of all the ships he sailed on through the years, but that doesn't seem to tie in with his army uniform!.  I will keep searching & thanks again for your help.

[clk]

Hi Lisa,

May I ask what his DoB was?

Regards
Chris

[Knotty]

31 minutes ago, lisar said:

The only thing I have found is a record of a Charles Hall with the same dob who was a boy on a ship in 1914 & a record of all the ships he sailed on through the years, but that doesn't seem to tie in with his army uniform!.

There is nothing to say that he was not in the navy during WW1 and due to his age in WW2 it led him to volunteer in Home Defence.

[lisar]

Hi Chris,

Well there is some debate with that even!, I'm pretty sure it is 27/02/1901 per birth register & multiple census but his obituary card from his funeral gives his dob as 27/02/1900. There are a couple of other things that give dob as 1900, so I wondered if he may have lied about his dob in order to enlist perhaps?. Thanks Lisa.

Thanks Knotty, that is a good idea, I won't rule it out then, it's just a shame that there are no living relatives I could ask directly.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

6 minutes ago, lisar said:

I'm pretty sure it is 27/02/1901 per birth register & multiple census 

What does it say for his 1901 Census - 2 months or 14 months?

That census will be the one that nails his age, and will not allow any leeway for mistakes by his parents in 1911.
But it's down to you, to be absolutely certain, you need his birth certificate

11 minutes ago, lisar said:

so I wondered if he may have lied about his dob in order to enlist perhaps?.

Anything is possible. He might, he might not.
If you want help, you will need to provide a lot  more information -place of birth, residence, work, next of kin, everything you know.

But even that might not be enough.

 

[Milner]

The are only two births with that name registered at Swindon around the period. The second one would appear to be your relative. If born at the end of Feb and allowing 6 weeks to register then he would be registered in the end of June quarter.  

Births Sep 1900   (>99%)

---

Hall Charles Jasper  Swindon 5a21  

---

Births Jun 1901   (>99%)

---

HALL Charles  Swindon 5a13  

[lisar]

Thanks for that, very kind of you to look, yes I think you're right, I had looked at the Charles Jasper Hall record but i've not heard of him having a middle name & the dob didn't quite fit. I will keep plodding on to see if I can find any more about his time in the military.

[Milner]

Here's a bit more from the 1939 census which was taken just before ww2 started. Not in the army yet, could he possibly be in the home guard rather than the army ?

Charles Hall

Gender Male

Birth Feb 27 1901

Residence Sep 29 1939 133, Pinehurst Road, Swindon, Wiltshire, England

Age 38

Marital status Married

Occupation Wagon Painter GWR

Wife Mary E Hall

Children Charles Hall, Raymond J Hall

[lisar]

Yes that's definitely him, I have had that address confirmed.  If he was in the home guard, perhaps due to his age, I wonder if that's why I can't find records of him on Fold 3 etc?, i'll have to do a bit more research to see if there are records of those who served in the home guard. 

I have found a record of a Charles Hall dob 27/02/1900, who was a boy on a ship in 1918 & a record of all the ships he sailed up to 1928, i'm wondering if this was him, although place of birth is in the next county Hants. Possibly a red herring it's so hard to tell.  But that's a bit out of the remit of this forum I suppose.

Thanks again for your help.

[Tawhiri]

46 minutes ago, lisar said:

I have found a record of a Charles Hall dob 27/02/1900, who was a boy on a ship in 1918 & a record of all the ships he sailed up to 1928, i'm wondering if this was him, although place of birth is in the next county Hants.

This particular Charles Hall gives his place of birth as Alresford, Hampshire on his Royal Navy service record. A look at the 1901 England census produces a Charles Hall aged 1, which would be correct if he were born in February 1900, who was born and living in Northington, Hampshire, with Google Maps telling me that this is very close to Alresford. The birth of a Charles Hall was also registered in the Alresford registration district in the second quarter of 1900, which would be within the 42 days allowed to register a birth if he were born on February 27, and registered at the beginning of the second quarter. 

I suspect you are correct in thinking that this particular Charles Hall is a red herring.

[Tawhiri]

On 05/08/2021 at 18:34, Milner said:

The are only two births with that name registered at Swindon around the period. The second one would appear to be your relative. If born at the end of Feb and allowing 6 weeks to register then he would be registered in the end of June quarter.  

Births Sep 1900   (>99%)

---

Hall Charles Jasper  Swindon 5a21  

---

Births Jun 1901   (>99%)

---

HALL Charles  Swindon 5a13  

Do you know what his mother's maiden name was? According to the GRO online indexes, the maiden name of the mother of the Charles Hall who's birth was registered in the second quarter of 1901 in Swindon was Grayling. For comparison, the maiden name of the mother of the Charles Hall who's birth was registered in the same quarter in the previous year in Alresford was Doick.

The 1901 Charles Hall born in Swindon can be easily found in the 1901 England census, living with his parents and rather large family, aged 1/12 months. His father is Arthur James Hall, born in Eastbourne, Sussex, while his mother is Ruth Jane Hall, born in Arlington, Sussex. This gets us to the marriage registration for an Arthur James Hall and Ruth Jane Grayling in the last quarter of 1884 in Hailsham, which is consistent with the age of the eldest child in the 1901 England census. By the time we get to the 1911 England census, Arthur and Ruth have had 15 children in 28 years of marriage, one of whom is deceased.

My guess is that your Charles Hall was too young to have served in WW1, or he was home service only, so no medals and therefore no trace of his service, if he did indeed serve.

Edited 7 August , 2021 by Tawhiri

[CorporalPunishment]

On 04/08/2021 at 23:00, lisar said:

Hi,

I'm new to this forum. I am researching my family history. I'm currently looking into the military history of my great grandfather Charles Hall from Swindon. I was wondering if anyone could tell me from the uniform in this photo if he was in the army/navy ? as I am a real novice in this field. I realise that this is probably a WW2 photo but it could give me a start with my research & also he may have been old enough to have taken part in WW1 . 

Many thanks for your help.

Lisa.

I know WW2 is outside the scope of the GWF but this is for the benefit of Lisa. The photo dates to post-1943 and the introduction of the GS cap which he is wearing. He is Royal Artillery and is wearing a plastic economy issue cap badge. I think he was a full-time soldier and not Home Guard as, to the best of my knowledge, the Home Guard were never issued with GS caps.     Pete.

 

[lisar]

On 06/08/2021 at 01:14, Tawhiri said:

This particular Charles Hall gives his place of birth as Alresford, Hampshire on his Royal Navy service record. A look at the 1901 England census produces a Charles Hall aged 1, which would be correct if he were born in February 1900, who was born and living in Northington, Hampshire, with Google Maps telling me that this is very close to Alresford. The birth of a Charles Hall was also registered in the Alresford registration district in the second quarter of 1900, which would be within the 42 days allowed to register a birth if he were born on February 27, and registered at the beginning of the second quarter. 

I suspect you are correct in thinking that this particular Charles Hall is a red herring.

Thanks for that, I hadn't cross checked the birth records so that has helped me out.  Lisa.

[lisar]

On 06/08/2021 at 14:05, Tawhiri said:

Do you know what his mother's maiden name was? According to the GRO online indexes, the maiden name of the mother of the Charles Hall who's birth was registered in the second quarter of 1901 in Swindon was Grayling. For comparison, the maiden name of the mother of the Charles Hall who's birth was registered in the same quarter in the previous year in Alresford was Doick.

The 1901 Charles Hall born in Swindon can be easily found in the 1901 England census, living with his parents and rather large family, aged 1/12 months. His father is Arthur James Hall, born in Eastbourne, Sussex, while his mother is Ruth Jane Hall, born in Arlington, Sussex. This gets us to the marriage registration for an Arthur James Hall and Ruth Jane Grayling in the last quarter of 1884 in Hailsham, which is consistent with the age of the eldest child in the 1901 England census. By the time we get to the 1911 England census, Arthur and Ruth have had 15 children in 28 years of marriage, one of whom is deceased.

My guess is that your Charles Hall was too young to have served in WW1, or he was home service only, so no medals and therefore no trace of his service, if he did indeed serve.

Thanks for doing that research that's very kind of you. Yes his mother's name was Grayling & yes what a big family they had!.  I think you're right that perhaps he wasn't old enough enough for WW1, especially as that other Charles Hall on the ship seems to be someone else. I'm going to continue my search for his WW2 records & other relatives ww1 records.

Thanks again, Lisa.

22 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said:

I know WW2 is outside the scope of the GWF but this is for the benefit of Lisa. The photo dates to post-1943 and the introduction of the GS cap which he is wearing. He is Royal Artillery and is wearing a plastic economy issue cap badge. I think he was a full-time soldier and not Home Guard as, to the best of my knowledge, the Home Guard were never issued with GS caps.     Pete.

 

Thank you so much that is such helpful information, it's so useful to get the opinion of people who know what's what.  Thanks again