Need help finding info on a soldier of the Leinster Regiment.

[BrilliantPower2]

Hi,

I am trying to find out more about the following soldier.

 

The soldiers name is Micheal Day, service number 3627 who served in the first battalion Leinster regiment.From his records which I have found on forces war records he joined up on the 22/05/14 but I am not sure where he enlisted.It appears he was wounded on the        11/07/15 at St eloi,Ypres.It then says   particular furnished on the 10/11/1917  in cork however I am unsure what this means.  Badges and certificates issued in Cork on the 27/11/1917.I was just wondering if anybody would be able to tell me where he from or where he enlisted or the action in which the leinster regiment took part in at St eloi.As he recieved his badges in Cork is it possible he was at ballyvonare camp in cork?Please find the attached records I have found.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You.

[PRC]

What Forces War Records is tried to tell you by using template wording is that he was wounded in action and appears on the official casualty lists. The 11th July 1915 was the date the Casualty list was issued not the date he was wounded. That is normally between 4 and 8 weeks earlier, and sometimes more. As as result of appearing on the list he was entitled to wear a wound stripe on his sleeve. Unfortunately he was honourably discharged on the 23rd October 1916 as he was no longer physically fit for War Service. As it was an honourable discharge he was entitled to wear the Silver War Badge - see here for background information https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/records-of-the-silver-war-badge/

The associated administrative document, the Silver War Badge Roll, is where it is recorded that he enlisted on the 22nd May 1914. It does not records whether he was unfit as a result of wounds or sickness, (most rolls do). He had however seen service overseas. He was 20 years old when he was discharged. There was obviously a delay in issuing his Silver War Badge as it didn't go out from Cork along with the King's letter thanking him for his service until 1917.

What hasn't been mentioned by the Forces War Records site is his Medal Index Card. These literally were index cards created at the relevant records office to keep track of documentation relating to the issue of service medals. In Michael Day's case they tell us that he first entered a Theatre of War, France, on the 17th February 1915. As a result he was entitled to the 1914/15 Star, the Victory Medal and the British War Medal.

Our parent site the Long, Long Trail tell us that the 1st Battalion, part of 82nd Brigade of the 27th Division, had been in France since the 20th December 1914, and the 2nd Battalion, part of 17th Brigade of the 6th Division had been in France since the 12th September 1914. The only other Battalion that would serve in France, the 7th, would not go out until December 1915. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-prince-of-waless-leinster-regiment-royal-canadians/

Which means he must have gone out as part of a replacement draft - I can only assume it was his age that stopped him from being allowed to go out with either the 1st or 2nd Battalion when they first went out to France, as he was a pre-war Regular.

Checking the Long, Long Trail again, the battles fought in by the 27th Division, (1st Battalion), included the Action at St Eloi, 1915. http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/27th-division/

The 6th Division, (2nd Battalion), were not involved. http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/6th-division/

The Actions of St Eloi Craters from 27 March to 16 April 1916, were local operations in the Ypres Salient of Flanders, during the First World War by the German 4th Army and the British Second Army. Sint-Elooi (the French St Eloi is commonly used in English) is a village about 5 km (3.1 mi) south of Ypres in Belgium. The British dug six galleries under no man's land, placed large explosive charges under the German defences and blew them at 4:15 a.m. on 27 March. The 27th Division captured all but craters 4 and 5. The 46th Reserve Division counter-attacked but the British captured craters 4 and 5 on 30 March. The Canadian Corps took over, despite the disadvantage of relieving troops in action.

The Canadians inherited positions in a deplorable state, the British having pressed their advantage, rather than consolidating the captured ground. On the night of 5/6 April a German methodical attack (Gegenangriff) recovered the captured craters. Canadian runners struggled to deliver messages and for several days the Canadian and British staffs were ignorant of which craters had been captured, the topography having been changed so much by the mine detonations. There were 17 craters, the new ones superimposed on the old, the ground full of shell-holes and derelict trenches. Snipers made it impossible to orientate and fresh troops easily mistook one pair of craters for another.

(Part of a much bigger article, though the Leinsters don't get a mention. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actions_of_St_Eloi_Craters

War diaries for units that served in France & Flanders can currently be downloaded for free from the National Archive. You do need to sign in with your account, but if you don't have one, even that can be set up as part of placing your first order. Just click on 'sign in' and follow the instructions - no financial details required.

The War Diary for the 2nd Battalion covering August 1914 to October 1915 can be found here : https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352345

It is very unlikely to mention him by name, but at least it will give you some idea of where they were and what they were up to.

The Service Medal Roll for his British War Medal and Victory Medal, (available on Ancestry), should, if the clerk who completed them followed standing instructions, tell you which unit(s) he served with in a Theatre of War.

Once a man was medically evacuated to the UK he would come off the strength of the Battalion and be posted onto the strength of the Depot for pay, admin and disciplinary purposes while he was physically at a Hospital. On discharge he'd report to the Depot. The Silver War Badge Roll refers to him being attached to C Depot at the time he was discharged from the Army. I'd guess that was the Cork Depot but I don't know for sure.

Having been medically discharged from the Army there is a good chance some kind of disability pension in payment. Very basic pension cards have become available online at Ancestry and it's US sister site Fold 3 over the last few years. These were rescued from a skip outside a former Ministry of Pensions Office. I don't subscribe, but from what I can see in the Ancestry public search there might be a couple of pension cards for him. They may give you a post discharge address and also a little bit more about the wounds or illness that led to his discharge.

Hope that gets you started,
Peter

Edited 5 August , 2021 by PRC
Typo

[PRC]

Just checked out Paul Nixons' Army Service number site. The Regular Army Battalions of the Leinster Regiment issued number 9718 on the 12th January 1912 and 10110 on the 27th January 1914.  https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/09/leinster-regiment-1st-2nd-battalions.html

So given your man was service number 3627 and enlisted on the 22nd May 1914 it would appear he was not a full-time soldier. Instead he was most likely a Special Reservist, initially in either the 3rd or 4th (Extra Reserve) Battalion. A Special Reservist would sign up for a period, (normally 6 years but they could opt for less), and spend the first three months training. After that they would be released back into civilian life, but with a commitment to be mobilised for the rest of the term. In return they received a retainer, plus there was meant to be regular training days. So Michael is likely to have still been undergoing his basic training when the British Army was mobilised on the 5th August 1914.

The 2nd Battalion as a UK based unit would have been brought up to campaign strength by mobilised reservists - men who had served years in the colours, (i.e. in uniform, in barracks and subject to military discipline 24/7). The 1st Battalion was out in India at the outbreak of war. Such Garrison Battalions tended to be maintained at full strength, usually at the expense of the UK based Battalions. So when they arrived back in the UK in November 1914 they probably didn't need to draw very much from the pool of mobilised reservists before heading out to France. So combined with his age, Michael being retained in the UK until February 1915 may simply reflect that there were better trained and experience men in front of him to be sent out to make good any losses.

Hope that helps,
Peter

 

[corisande]

The pension information of him apart from an address in Glasgow on his Fold3 card

[Matlock1418]

12 hours ago, PRC said:

Having been medically discharged from the Army there is a good chance some kind of disability pension in payment. Very basic pension cards have become available online at Ancestry and it's US sister site Fold 3 over the last few years. These were rescued from a skip outside a former Ministry of Pensions Office. I don't subscribe, but from what I can see in the Ancestry public search there might be a couple of pension cards for him. They may give you a post discharge address and also a little bit more about the wounds or illness that led to his discharge.

Please don't forget it was the Western Front Association that saved them - then Ancestry/Fold3 came along to get them out to us!! ;-) :-)

You are right there are two cards, for an unspecified disability claim, at WFA/Fold3 for DAY, Michael, 3627, Leinster Regt. - this is essentially the sum of what can be further gleaned from them.

A Pension Index Card - shows claims in Region 1 [Scotland] and Region 13 [S. Ireland] - Card marked/claim was made "DEAD" in Ireland c.3/12/25 - this doesn't necessarily mean the man was dead, perhaps just the claim.

And a Pension Ledger Index Card for his Region 1 claim - shows his address in c.1920 as 122 Main St., Maryhill, Glasgow and that his claim was later transferred to the Awards (R) [section] 21/11/25 and a new Region 13 claim reference number - card is also marked "INACT" [which would likely match with the DEAD on the PIC]

We can only speculate on the situation in 1925 as unfortunately very little info provided on the front of the PLIC and nothing on the reverse - he may not have decided to continue the claim once in Ireland or perhaps his disability was so limited, <20%, that a final gratuity pay-off was provided, or even that he was perhaps dead by December = we just can't tell from these cards alone.

Unfortunately his main pension file will likely be long gone - most were deliberately destroyed after their use ended [I could not find a file for him amongst the few retained PIN 26 files at the NA either]

:-) M

Edit: @corisande - you beat me as I typed! :-)

Edited 5 August , 2021 by Matlock1418
edit