Could anyone help me to identify this uniform please.

[Paul in the Somme]

The photo was with a letter sent from Bachant in Northern France by an unknown British soldier on December 30th 1918 to a family in Acheux-en-Amienois. The photograph was with the letter but I do not know if it was sent with the letter. It forms part of a large collection of items found in my neighbour's garage. Any help would be welcome

[FROGSMILE]

At first glance the soldier appears to be French, as he holds a kepi.  It is of the older, soft type with a low crown (perhaps 2nd Empire), and quartered by a cross of piping across the sides.  However, there are some odd aspects concerning his tunic, including the 'mitre' style cuffs and unusual collar insignia, so I'm not convinced as yet.  Someone like @CROONAERT, @Guepe or @battle of loosmight be able to assist.

It is also reminiscent of the American Civil War style uniform that emulated the French style.  The long style of tunic suggests 1860-1880, but it needs a French expert to confirm.

 

Edited 2 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Paul in the Somme]

Thank you Frogsmile. Apologies for the quality of the photo. I had not noticed the kepi, I thought it was a bag!  

It could pre-date WW1 because there was a war pension book in the same pile for a M. Henri Bouchez which was stamped in 1900. The Bouchez family originally lived in the house where all these items were found

Regards

Paul

[FROGSMILE]

20 minutes ago, Paul in the Somme said:

Thank you Frogsmile. Apologies for the quality of the photo. I had not noticed the kepi, I thought it was a bag!  

It could pre-date WW1 because there was a war pension book in the same pile for a M. Henri Bouchez which was stamped in 1900. The Bouchez family originally lived in the house where all these items were found

Regards

Paul

Yes, I do think it's probably from a previous generation.  The problem is that the French Army changed its uniform several times quite closely together from a historical point of view as each time it changed its political system between Royalty, Empire(s) and Republic(s).  The absence of fringed epaulettes is a particularly unusual matter.  The closest I can find is La Garde Nationale.

Edited 2 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[mancpal]

Pre WW1 topic surely. Glad to see pompous posts appear to have been removed.

Simon

[Paul in the Somme]

Hello Simon

Thank you for your message.

From the information Kindly supplied by Frogsmile it seems that it is a pre WW1 topic.

I was not aware of this when I posted my original message.

Apologies to anyone who might have been offended

Kind regards

Paul 

[FROGSMILE]

55 minutes ago, Paul in the Somme said:

Hello Simon

Thank you for your message.

From the information Kindly supplied by Frogsmile it seems that it is a pre WW1 topic.

I was not aware of this when I posted my original message.

Apologies to anyone who might have been offended

Kind regards

Paul 

I'm still hoping that @CROONAERTwill come along Paul, as he's the real expert on the French Army and a helpful chap.  He last logged in in August last year, so hopefully he might be still out there somewhere and will receive this call.

Edited 3 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Guepe]

On 02/08/2021 at 18:30, Paul in the Somme said:

The photo was with a letter sent from Bachant in Northern France by an unknown British soldier on December 30th 1918 to a family in Acheux-en-Amienois. The photograph was with the letter but I do not know if it was sent with the letter. It forms part of a large collection of items found in my neighbour's garage. Any help would be welcome

Due to the quality of the photo I'm almost certain it dates quite a few years before ww1. 

[FROGSMILE]

36 minutes ago, Guepe said:

Due to the quality of the photo I'm almost certain it dates quite a few years before ww1. 

Yes, that is already a consensus of opinion so far, whilst an expert is awaited, but what uniform is it do you think?

Edited 3 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Paul in the Somme]

Thanks for your help Frogsmile

 

[Guepe]

24 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes, that is already a consensus of opinion so far, whilst an expert is awaited, but what uniform is it do you think?

I'm not certain although I'm not leaving the military something is telling me that it could be law enforcement related or even from another country. 

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, Guepe said:

I'm not certain although I'm not leaving the military something is telling me that it could be law enforcement related or even from another country. 

Possibly, except that policemen more often (but not always) have a number on their uniform (for ID), and I have not yet seen that type of kepi worn by law enforcement other than perhaps the Gendarmerie.

Edited 3 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Guepe]

11 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Possibly, except that policemen more often (but not always) have a number on their uniform (for ID), and I have not yet seen that type of kepi worn by law enforcement other than perhaps the Gendarmerie.

 

On 02/08/2021 at 18:30, Paul in the Somme said:

The photo was with a letter sent from Bachant in Northern France by an unknown British soldier on December 30th 1918 to a family in Acheux-en-Amienois. The photograph was with the letter but I do not know if it was sent with the letter. It forms part of a large collection of items found in my neighbour's garage. Any help would be welcome

Now after looking through images I'm looking more at Dutch and Scandinavian origin maybe Norwegian. 

[FROGSMILE]

21 minutes ago, Guepe said:

 

Now after looking through images I'm looking more at Dutch and Scandinavian origin maybe Norwegian. 

Yes, again I can understand why you are considering that, the long tunic was quite common for the period, the basic kepi too.  It is just the quartered piping on the sides of the crown that are very French and do not fit with a Scandinavian hypotheses, although ironically they would with an American (Confederate) one.

[Guepe]

On militaria forums I've spoken with people about it being Norwegian but they are sure thst it isn't a military uniform. 

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes, again I can understand why you are considering that, the long tunic was quite common for the period, the basic kepi too.  It is just the quartered piping on the sides of the crown that are very French and do not fit with a Scandinavian hypotheses, although ironically they would with an American (Confederate) one.

You sure it isn't one of those british uniforme that belong to an organisation. 

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, Guepe said:

On militaria forums I've spoken with people about it being Norwegian but they are sure thst it isn't a military uniform. 

You sure it isn't one of those british uniforme that belong to an organisation. 

Yes I’m absolutely positive it’s not a British uniform.  Perhaps @Gabeloumight have some idea?

Edited 4 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Guepe]

On 04/08/2021 at 00:38, Paul in the Somme said:

Thanks for your help Frogsmile

 

If you don't get any more leads i can give you a French militaria website where they are experts on French uniforms of all kinds. 

[Paul in the Somme]

Thanks for your help Guepe.

I would be very grateful if you could send me the link.

I think we should close this thread otherwise as it has become pre WW1

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Paul in the Somme said:

Thanks for your help Guepe.

I would be very grateful if you could send me the link.

I think we should close this thread otherwise as it has become pre WW1

 

The trouble with closing it completely is that when any of the established French Army experts do eventually receive their tags to the thread they will be unable to answer except by PM and the rest of us will be done the wiser.  Personally I hope that there might be a little more patience until they respond.

[Guepe]

4 hours ago, Paul in the Somme said:

Thanks for your help Guepe.

I would be very grateful if you could send me the link.

I think we should close this thread otherwise as it has become pre WW1

 

I'll take the advice of FROGSMILE and wait a bit longer if you want and if still there's no response then I'll give you the link. 

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Guepe said:

I'll take the advice of FROGSMILE and wait a bit longer if you want and if still there's no response then I'll give you the link. 

There’s no reason why you can’t post the link now Guepe.  Paul can still pursue other avenues to this one while we await a reply here.

[Guepe]

9 hours ago, Paul in the Somme said:

Thanks for your help Guepe.

I would be very grateful if you could send me the link.

I think we should close this thread otherwise as it has become pre WW1

 

https://www.passionmilitaria.com/

Here is the website which is a French militaria forum. 

Post the photo under "papiers et photos". 

If you need help just ask me. 

[Paul in the Somme]

Thanks Guepe.

I will follow the advice from you and Frogsmile and keep the thread open.

[battle of loos]

On 8/2/2021 at 6:30 PM, Paul in the Somme said:

The photo was with a letter sent from Bachant in Northern France by an unknown British soldier on December 30th 1918 to a family in Acheux-en-Amienois. The photograph was with the letter but I do not know if it was sent with the letter. It forms part of a large collection of items found in my neighbour's garage. Any help would be welcome

good moorning,

this uniform is French.
our man wears a belt with the plate of the model 1845 in service until 1915. 
the photo must be dated around the period of the War of 1870.
kepi is typical of this period.
at the pass, it seems to me to see 2 caduceus (belonging to the medical profession)

Kind regards

Michel

[FROGSMILE]

Thank you Michel for solving this mystery.  Here is a photo of the medical service collar insignia and a kepi.  In each case the badge is a caduceus between oak leaves and a fern.

For Paul in the Somme:  your photo seems to show a medical orderly, or perhaps medical student officer.  It explains why he is demonstrably unarmed.

 

Edited 8 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE