Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Which WW1 army records stipulate D.O.B's? I have 5 people with the same name in different units and no D.O.B's and so cannot match an ancestor!


D Pritchard

Recommended Posts

Hi

I discovered an ancestor who I think is in the Coldstream Guards, but am unsure which battalion of the Coldstream Guards he was in, it is not clear to me. I wanted to find out roughly whereabouts in France he was when injured, to read around it. Here are all the documents I have found that relate to him so far. Any deciphering of the medical report would be helpful too!

Thank you in advance.

Name Harry Wakley.png

HarryWakleymedals.jpg

HarryWakleyPensionDisabilityKeep.jpg

Screenshot 2021-08-01 at 21.18.31.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The qualifying date of 12th August 1914 puts him in either the 2nd or 3rd battalion. The 1st battalion embarked for France a day later. In his records there is a note that he was examined and found fit for service in Egypt on 3rd December 1908.  The 3rd battalion was serving in Egypt at that time and so it seems likely he would have gone to France in 1914 with the 3rd battalion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,

I'm wondering if anyone can help. I am searching for Arthur Wakley's WW1 record. He was born in 1894 in Talaton, Devon. The trouble is I have found 5 people with the same name on Ancestry and they are all different, one being in the Royal Army Service Corps, a Gunner in the Royal Field Artillery, a Royal Welsh Fusilier and also Labour Corps and another in the Royal Engineers. I looked at some of the  records for these and could not see a D.O.B on them to match my ancestor, records usually have something to link ancestors to! I may well have missed a scribble somewhere which links him. He was employed as a butcher's assistant in 1911 census aged 16.

Here is a picture of him.

 

Thank you

 

795127436_Screenshot2021-08-02at12_01_31.png.b2ca506bd27049d9fd6042ad63a6a133.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The majority of records that are around don't have DOB- keep in mind as well that the DOB was also, where it is available, self declared.

Can you give the service numbers of the men on your shortlist ?

Craig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DoB's sometimes appear on pension cards. You may find the age on enlistment given in years and months on the attestation form. In both cases remember Craig's warning about self declaration.

RM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

The 1911 census seems to have Arthur in Whimple, Devon. FMP has a newspaper report from the Exeter and Plymouth Gazette dated 15/9/16, under Rockcleare Parish, stating that Arthur Wakley had recently left the village and achieved the rank of Lance Corporal. 

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000511%2f19160915%2f059&stringtohighlight=arthur wakley

Given that there is only one Arthur Wakley on the 1911 in Devon, this is probably him. From that you can rule out any of your 5 who had a 14/15 star. 

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Derek

Edited by Swinesheadvillage
Update
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ss002d6252

Yes this is what I have found: Also, don't know if any significance, he lived in Orkney at some point in his life. He had 3 brothers, one was in the navy, one was in the Coldstream Guards and the other was in the Military Mounted police.

 

Arthur Wakley records:

Royal Army Service Corps

WW1 Service medal & award rolls/Medal rolls index cards

Cpl

Rgtl. No M/324519

 

Gunner - Royal Field Artillery

WW1 Service medal & award rolls/Medal rolls index cards

Rgtl. No 210707

 

Pension record cards same service number but only viewable on Fold 3.

 

Royal Welsh Fusiliers

WW1 Service medal & award rolls/

49298 Cpl

 

Labour Corps

Spelt Wakeley

392748 Pte

Silver war badge

Unit: ECLC ex Manchester

 

Royal Engineers

 

264661 Rank: SPR

 

I cannot see many Pension record cards on Ancestry, as it tells me I have to view it on Fold 3. I am not subscribed to this. I just paid for the Worldwide subscription on Ancestry and this is not included. I can't keep paying out money to view all these different records :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Birth in the Honiton Civil Registration District in the April to June quarter, (Q2), of 1894, (mothers maiden name Gould), shows him with out any middle names. I presume therefore any marriage occurred postwar looking at the civil records for England & Wales for Arthur Wakley, no middle name. Marriage certificates can therefore be ruled out as a possible route to discovering which unit he was serving with, (shown under Grooms Occupation).

Given his age he would have qualified for the vote when the franchise was extended in 1918 even if he wasn't a male head of household. So may be worth looking for the absent voters lists for 1918 & 1919, most likely for his parents address. There is a bit more on how this line of enquiry can help on our parent site, the Long, Long Trail. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

A quick check of newspapers on FMP didn't bring up anything obviously relevant for that surname and Whimple, the place where the family were recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales during the wartime years.

The 1920 electoral register for parish of Rockbeare, Devon, in the Parliamentary seat of Honiton, shows an Arthur Wakley as resident in the village. The ratepayer at the same address appears to be a Samuel Thomas Wakley. May be a co-incidence but that is the name of the father of the 16 year old Butchers Assistant recorded on the 1911 Census. The mother of Arthur, wife of Samuel Thomas, on the 1911 Census was a Rose Wakley, aged 52, (so born circa 1859). She too would have been entitled to vote as a result of the Representation of the Peoples Act of 1918 - although of course she may have chosen not to register. An alternative explanation for her absense is the death of a 59 year old Rose Wakley recorded in the St Thomas Civil Registration District of Devon in Q3 1917.

@Swinesheadvillage has already found the newspaper report making the connection to Rockbeare, so very likely your man from the census will turn up on the 1918 & 1919 electoral registers for there. Hovever I did come across a death notice in the edition of the Exter & Plymouth Gazette dated September 13, 1918.

"WAKLEY - At the Naval Hospital, Plymouth, Ralph, youngest son of Thomas and the late Mrs Wakley, of Rockbeare, aged 18 years"

There is a 10 year old Ralph on that 1911 Census return. The reference to the late Mrs Wakley would tend to support her death in 1917 and therefore absence from the 1920 electoral register.

Relevant casualty on CWGC Ordinary Seaman SS/9113 Ralph Wakley, HMS Vivid, died 31st August 1918 and buried at Plymouth. Additional family information is 'Son of Samuel Thomas and Rose Wakley, of The Village, Rockbeare, Exeter'. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2852329/RALPH WAKLEY/

Hope some of that helps,
Peter

Edited by PRC
Typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, rolt968 said:

DoB's sometimes appear on pension cards.

 

1 hour ago, D Pritchard said:

For some reason the pension records I want to see are on Fold 3 and I am not subscribed to that.

Be aware:

For a man it was usually just the YoB [which might be taken off other records which were self-declared] on Pension Ledger Index Cards - for a Disability claim

= Full DoB are typically found on a Widow's claims Pension Index Card - but for the widow [next to her name] and child(ren) [listed in a table] NOT for the man [as were potentially needed for a widow's age supplement, at age 35 or 45, and for the termination of child(ren)'s allowance(s), at 16] - I suppose those might help, if you have other good genealogy.

:-) M

Edited by Matlock1418
clarify
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@PRC. Thank you Peter. Yes you are correct with much of what you have found. I will have a look into the absent voters lists, thanks for that lead. Samuel Thomas was the father of Arthur. Rose (nee Gould) did die circa 1917. Ralph was younger and was in the navy for about 6 weeks before he died of 'disease,' aged 18. I haven't got any further with that line of enquiry yet. Perhaps it was the beginnings of the flu pandemic (although this was largely 1918 onwards), or typhus or something else. Very young to die regardless.

@MaxD thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, D Pritchard said:

I'm wondering if anyone can help. I am searching for Arthur Wakley's WW1 record. He was born in 1894 in Talaton, Devon.

Did he survive, have a disability or die?

2 hours ago, D Pritchard said:

He had 3 brothers, one was in the navy, one was in the Coldstream Guards and the other was in the Military Mounted police.

Wonder if you can give further family details - Parents, siblings - others' namescan be very handy!

:-) M

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, D Pritchard said:

Ralph was younger and was in the navy for about 6 weeks before he died of 'disease,' aged 18. I haven't got any further with that line of enquiry yet.

Cerebral Spinal Fever - his very brief statement of service can currently be downloaded for free from the National Archive. You do need to log in with your account, but if you haven't got one, even that can be set up as part of placing your first order. Just click "sign in" and follow the instructions - no financial details required.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7082695

Cheers,
Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, D Pritchard said:

Ralph was younger and was in the navy for about 6 weeks before he died of 'disease,' aged 18. I haven't got any further with that line of enquiry yet. Perhaps it was the beginnings of the flu pandemic (although this was largely 1918 onwards), or typhus or something else. Very young to die regardless.

O.S. Ralph WAKLEY, SS/9113 - from pension card at WFA/Fold3 

Died at RN Barracks, Devonport, of Cerebro Spinal Fever [? associated with Meningitis ??]

Father,Samuel Thomas WAKLEY of The Village, Rockbere, Nr. Exeter,  got 5/- pw from 6.11.18 under Article 21 (1c) of the Royal Warrant.

:-) M

Edit; We crossed Peter :thumbsup:

Edited by Matlock1418
edit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Matlock1418 Arthur survived the war because a date of death has been given in Taunton 1951.

Samuel Thomas Wakley (1889)=Rose Gould

 

There was a Margaret Harriet Wakey (b.1891)

Arthur Wakley (b. 1894) I believe was in the Coldstream Guards, I have a picture of him with two in the ceremonial uniform (drummers).

Frances Joyce (1898)

Ralph (1900) - navy - died aged 18

Tom William Gould (1887) Military police

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@PRC and @Matlock1418 thanks very much for finding that out about Ralph. Yes had a look on Google - meningitis. I was going to order his death certificate, that has saved me a job. Registered with National Archives because have been reading war diaries. Great thanks, will download.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, D Pritchard said:

Gunner - Royal Field Artillery

WW1 Service medal & award rolls/Medal rolls index cards

Rgtl. No 210707

Arthur WAKLEY, 210707, RFA

WFA/Fold3 pension card - a disability claim [unspecified] - few details

However, there are two claim references - the Regional claim reference were both for Region 11 [SE England - before and up to at least it would appear] in 1923 - don't know if that fits your AW ?? [Certainly not SW England at that date!]

:-) M

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, D Pritchard said:

Royal Welsh Fusiliers

WW1 Service medal & award rolls/

49298 Cpl

Arthur Elias WAKELEY, 49298, RWF [Possibly also 030681]

WFA/Fold3 pension card - a disability claim [unspecified] - limited details

Transferred to Z Reserve 2.1.20

Pension from 3.1.20 - Pension claim reference points to Region 5 [Wales]

???

:-) M

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, D Pritchard said:

Arthur Wakley (b. 1894) I believe was in the Coldstream Guards, I have a picture of him with two in the ceremonial uniform (drummers).

Sorry, can I just recap in case I’m being a numpty and missing something.

You have a relative Arthur Wakley that you know the family details of from the civil records and can tie him to an individual aged 16 on the 1911 Census of England &Wales living at Whimple, Devon.

Later wartime evidence places the same family at Rockbeare, Devon.

A September 1916 newspaper has an Arthur Wakley being made Lance-Corporal, having “recently” left the village of Rockbeare. (So is that most likely on joining up and so therefore almost certainly a conscript, or could it be returning to his unit after a period of leave?).

The man from the civil records appears to be back in time to appear on the 1920 Electoral Register so had left the Army by then – which means he didn’t stay in the Army post 1920, the qualifier for his records to be retained by the Ministry of Defence.

You believe him to have served in the Coldstream Guards, but there are no matching records \ Medal Index Card. (I also can’t see him in the Coldstream Guards attestation register on FindMyPast.)

Known to have survived but not believed to have married during the Great War period.

So scenarios for me would appear to be:-

  • Stayed in the Coldstream Guards, didn’t go overseas. No service medals so no MiC. Service records amongst those retained by the Guards record office, which were handed over to the National Archive recently and I believe are now with FindMyPast for digitisation
  • Or didn’t make the grade with the Coldstream Guards and was released to serve with another unit. A study of nearby service number and any associated surviving service records for your five individuals may indicate if this has any mileage – were there any other Guards rejects amongst them?
  • Or he is one of the individuals with MiCs, but was released at some point in the Army Career to the Coldstream Guards with whom he served in the UK only. As he didn’t serve with them overseas the unit is not referenced on the MiC. If it was the last unit he served with before discharge then the medal roll may identify this – i.e. he appears on the Coldstream Guards service medal roll but the medals are issued on behalf of other units. I wouldn’t build your hopes though – it’s unlikely for example that someone medically repatriated to the UK would then be posted to the Guards on recovery.

May be worth posting your other picture to see if any of the uniform experts on the forum can tease out any more details.

Cheers,
Peter

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...