Long Shot...Unknown Soldier....Pte Chapman

[mikereme]

Hello Everyone,

 

I been approached by a gentlemen if I can get some information (If Any) on a soldiers who served in WW1.  All I have is that they maybe  from Rochdale area and may have served in a Lancashire Regt...

Please see attached pics of the soldiers

Their Names are;

James Chapman (Sitting down on the right)

Richard Chapman

Thomas Chapman

William Chapman

Unknow soldier - ?

I know this is a long shot but appreciate any info

I thank you in anticipation...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 August , 2021 by mikereme

[johntanner]

A possible starter for 10.

 

Name:	James Chapman
Age in 1911:	15
Estimated Birth Year:	abt 1896
Relation to Head:	Son
Gender:	Male
Birth Place:	Swinton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:	Swinton
Search Photos:	Search for 'Swinton' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Country:	England
Street Address:	50 Stafford Road Swinton Nr Mch/R
Occupation:	Bobbin Corner
Registration District Number:	463
Sub-registration District:	Worsley
ED, institution, or vessel:	13
Piece:	23572
Household Members:	Name Age Henry Chapman 50 Mary Hannah Chapman 48 William Henry Chapman 20 Charles Chapman 17 James Chapman 15 Margaret Mary Chapman 12 Ellen Chapman 9 Alice Chapman 6

Save  

[mikereme]

1 minute ago, johntanner said:

A possible starter for 10.

 

Name:	James Chapman
Age in 1911:	15
Estimated Birth Year:	abt 1896
Relation to Head:	Son
Gender:	Male
Birth Place:	Swinton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:	Swinton
Search Photos:	Search for 'Swinton' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Country:	England
Street Address:	50 Stafford Road Swinton Nr Mch/R
Occupation:	Bobbin Corner
Registration District Number:	463
Sub-registration District:	Worsley
ED, institution, or vessel:	13
Piece:	23572
Household Members:	Name Age Henry Chapman 50 Mary Hannah Chapman 48 William Henry Chapman 20 Charles Chapman 17 James Chapman 15 Margaret Mary Chapman 12 Ellen Chapman 9 Alice Chapman 6

Save  

My Goodness..... that is amazing is there info on regiments etc...

[Michelle Young]

5th photo is Lancs Fusiliers. Top photo all look like Artillery, 4th photo could be Manchester Regiment. Photo of Uncle Dick and Auntie Kate, he looks to have a grenade on his shoulder, so another fusiliers regiment.

[alf mcm]

Assuming James, Richard, Thomas and William are brothers, then this may be their family in 1911;-

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=2352&h=22830430&tid=&pid=&queryId=a7ee1c827e93ff06dcf56ec5902ff9e2&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bmY56507&_phstart=successSource

Regards,

Alf McM

[mikereme]

5 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

5th photo is Lancs Fusiliers. Top photo all look like Artillery, 4th photo could be Manchester Regiment. 

Brilliant this is a start!

[alf mcm]

This may be Richard's service records;-

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=bmY56513&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&_phtarg=bmY56512&dbid=1219&gsfn=RICHARD&gsln=CHAPMAN&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&cp=11&gskw=SALFORD&gskw_x=1&new=1&rank=1&uidh=9y4&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&h=316015&recoff=&ml_rpos=1&queryId=4da09d10dc68aba091727b1c19f63f57

Regards,

Alf McM

[alf mcm]

The 5 men in the first photo appear to be regimental Signallers judging by the armbands.

Regards,

Alf McM

[mikereme]

1 minute ago, alf mcm said:

This may be Richard's service records;-

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=bmY56513&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&_phtarg=bmY56512&dbid=1219&gsfn=RICHARD&gsln=CHAPMAN&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&cp=11&gskw=SALFORD&gskw_x=1&new=1&rank=1&uidh=9y4&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&h=316015&recoff=&ml_rpos=1&queryId=4da09d10dc68aba091727b1c19f63f57

Regards,

Alf McM

Hi Alf, sorry i dont have access to these records would it possible to download them please my friend..

Just now, alf mcm said:

The 5 men in the first photo appear to be regimental Signallers judging by the armbands.

Regards,

Alf McM

Ah that seems to answer the question from the family!

[Michelle Young]

10 minutes ago, mikereme said:

Hi Alf, sorry i dont have access to these records would it possible to download them please my friend..

Ah that seems to answer the question from the family!

Against forum rules to ask other members to download on your behalf I'm afraid 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/rules/

[alf mcm]

You could get a free trial with Ancestry, this will help with the 1911 census result as well.

Regards,

Alf McM

[mikereme]

3 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

Against forum rules to ask other members to download on your behalf I'm afraid 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/rules/

Sorry I apologise unreservedly... 

2 minutes ago, alf mcm said:

You could get a free trial with Ancestry, this will help with the 1911 census result as well.

Regards,

Alf McM

Thank you AlfMcM.. will certainly give it a go

[alf mcm]

Does your gentleman know if any of the Chapmans in the first photo didn't survive the war?

The parents in my link to the 1911 census were James and Elizabeth Chapman.

Regards,

Alf McM

[mikereme]

Hi Alf McM.

Sorry for not getting back to you...

We dont know this info....the little girl in the census died 

[DavidOwen]

There was a Thomas Chapman a Private in the Manchesters from Swinton (a miner) who died 7 July 1916 remembered on the Thiepval Memorial.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1543196/THOMAS CHAPMAN/

His death was reported in the Manchester Evening News nearly a year later on 22 June 1917 (image courtesy FMP)

[DavidOwen]

Thomas's record such as it is is here https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F007289996%2F00574&parentid=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F7289996%2F45%2F574

[mikereme]

Davidowen thank you I will pass this onto he family WOW...

[mikereme]

Hello Everyone,

 

It seems one of the soldiers is Private Samuel Chapman was killed on the 30 July 1916 and remembered on the thiepval memorial.  He was with the 18th Battalion Manchester Regiment would like to know his Regtl number and anything regarding the 18th Bn on this day>

 

I thank you in anticipation

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 hours ago, mikereme said:

It seems one of the soldiers is Private Samuel Chapman was killed on the 30 July 1916 and remembered on the thiepval memorial.  He was with the 18th Battalion Manchester Regiment would like to know his Regtl number and anything regarding the 18th Bn on this day?

 

This  man:

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1543192/SAMUEL CHAPMAN/

 

(PS. Which bit of Anglesey are you on?
I'm a native, and like Taron Egerton and Naomi Watts, went to school in Llan...gogogoch.)

[clk]

Hi,

The 18 Bn Manchester Regiment Samuel Chapman had a service number of 9972. His CWGC record is here. It says his mother was Elizabeth Chapman, of 33, Arlington St., Salford, Manchester. That is the same address shown on a pension claim made by her on an index card on Fold3. His Soldiers Died record says:

Birth Place:    Seedley, Manchester
Residence:    Salford, Lancs

His Soldiers Effects record notes " on or since 30.7.16  death presumed", which introduces an element of doubt as to the precise date of his death. It names his father as being called James.

Findmypast have a transcription of the record set British Red Cross & Order Of St John Enquiry List, Wounded & Missing, 1914-1919 which reads as:

First name(s): Samuel
Last name: Chapman
Soldier number 9972
Regiment: Manchester Regiment
Battalion: 18
Company: A
M. (W etc) Date or Equiv: 29/07/1916
Theatre of war B.E.F.
Enquiry date: 07/09/1916

Also on FMP, they host an image of 3 Platoon, 'A' Company, 18 Battalion, from Manchester Regiment City Battalions 1914-1916 in which he is named as purporting to appear.

Image sourced from Findmypast

The amount of War Gratuity shown as being paid in his Soldiers Effects (being largely a reflection of rank and time served) can be used to back calculate a date of enlistment of circa the outbreak of the conflict in August 1914. Firming it up a bit, as points of reference there are surviving service papers for some near-ish number men from the 18th Bn which show:

9918 Robertson - attested 4.9.1914
9919 Rushton- attested 4.9.1914
9922 Rigby - attested 4.9.1914
9936 Stewart - attested 4.9.1914
9943 Webb - attested 4.9.1914
9955 Wilkinson - attested 4.9.1914
9972
9995 Stott - attested 5.9.1914
9996 Shawcross - attested 5.9.1914
9999 Turner - attested 5.9.1914

There is a (very) potted history of the Bn here.

For the date of his presumed death, the Battalion war diary is available as a free download (after a straight forward and no cost registration) from here. To add more context, to the Bn war diary, it might also be worth downloading the Brigade HQ and Division HQ diaries which are here and here.

There is help on reading map references here.

Regards
Chris
 

 

 

Edited 13 August , 2021 by clk
hyperlink changed

[mikereme]

7 hours ago, clk said:

Hi,

The 18 Bn Manchester Regiment Samuel Chapman had a service number of 9972. His CWGC record is here. It says his mother was Elizabeth Chapman, of 33, Arlington St., Salford, Manchester. That is the same address shown on a pension claim made by her on an index card on Fold3. His Soldiers Died record says:

Birth Place:    Seedley, Manchester
Residence:    Salford, Lancs

His Soldiers Effects record notes " on or since 30.7.16  death presumed", which introduces an element of doubt as to the precise date of his death. It names his father as being called James.

Findmypast have a transcription of the record set British Red Cross & Order Of St John Enquiry List, Wounded & Missing, 1914-1919 which reads as:

First name(s): Samuel
Last name: Chapman
Soldier number 9972
Regiment: Manchester Regiment
Battalion: 18
Company: A
M. (W etc) Date or Equiv: 29/07/1916
Theatre of war B.E.F.
Enquiry date: 07/09/1916

Also on FMP, they host an image of 3 Platoon, 'A' Company, 18 Battalion, from Manchester Regiment City Battalions 1914-1916 in which he is named as purporting to appear.

Image sourced from Findmypast

The amount of War Gratuity shown as being paid in his Soldiers Effects (being largely a reflection of rank and time served) can be used to back calculate a date of enlistment of circa the outbreak of the conflict in August 1914. Firming it up a bit, as points of reference there are surviving service papers for some near-ish number men from the 18th Bn which show:

9918 Robertson - attested 4.9.1914
9919 Rushton- attested 4.9.1914
9922 Rigby - attested 4.9.1914
9936 Stewart - attested 4.9.1914
9943 Webb - attested 4.9.1914
9955 Wilkinson - attested 4.9.1914
9972
9995 Stott - attested 5.9.1914
9996 Shawcross - attested 5.9.1914
9999 Turner - attested 5.9.1914

There is a (very) potted history of the Bn here.

For the date of his presumed death, the Battalion war diary is available as a free download (after a straight forward and no cost registration) from here. To add more context, to the Bn war diary, it might also be worth downloading the Brigade HQ and Division HQ diaries which are here and here.

There is help on reading map references here.

Regards
Chris
 

 

 

Chris, What can i say thank you so much..... I will pass this onto the family

[mikereme]

7 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

 

This  man:

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1543192/SAMUEL CHAPMAN/

 

(PS. Which bit of Anglesey are you on?
I'm a native, and like Taron Egerton and Naomi Watts, went to school in Llan...gogogoch.)

Hi Dai Bach,

Thank you for this...

Located in Marion Glas area.... originally from Wrexham Great to here from you buddy.

[clk]

Hi,

Under the service number of 18/9972 FMP have a few pages from his service record (link). Amongst other things, they confirm that he attested in Manchester on 5.9.1914. The papers should also be available on Ancestry.

Regards
Chris

[mikereme]

3 hours ago, clk said:

Hi,

Under the service number of 18/9972 FMP have a few pages from his service record (link). Amongst other things, they confirm that he attested in Manchester on 5.9.1914. The papers should also be available on Ancestry.

Regards
Chris

Chris, Brilliant news will pass onto the family... he joined early in the war as did many others..

[8055Bell]

CSM George Evans gained his VC with Samuel Chapman & 18th Manchesters at Guillemont on 30/07/1916.  They advanced through the village with 2nd RSF. 16th & 17th Bns were in support and were unsuccesful in joining up with the lead Bns.  Most of 18th Bn & 2nd RSF were killed or captured - incl CSM Evans.