Private Albert Harry LYNN [15286] 5th Bn., The Connaught Rangers - When did he enlist?

[Skipo]

All,

 

Same request if anyone can please assist - From his service number, is it possible to tell when Private Albert Harry LYNN [15286] 5th Bn., The Connaught Rangers, enlisted?

Best,

 

Skip

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, Skipo said:

Private Albert Harry LYNN [15286] 5th Bn., The Connaught Rangers

That appears to be off his BWM & VM medal roll which also shows earlier service as 6th Leinster Regt. 5617

:-) M

[Skipo]

Oh, I had not seen that so it's very useful indeed Matlock. In fact I've been able to find a few pension records from this so much appreciated. The Connaught info came from his headstone if I remember rightly.

Soldiers Died in the Great War states that he was formerly Royal Fusiliers with the number 42523, although I don't know whether he was Fusiliers before the Leinsters or the other way around.

So, same question stands unfortunately as I cannot find his service record even with this new number: Using 5617 or 42523 is it possible to see when LYNN enlisted? He was born in 1885 and it is doubtful whether he had served before 1911 as he appears inn that year's census as a Grocer's Assistant.

[Matlock1418]

24 minutes ago, Skipo said:

He was born in 1885 and it is doubtful whether he had served before 1911 as he appears inn that year's census as a Grocer's Assistant.

Careful - He seems old enough to have served and then gone to Reserve by 1911.

Could perhaps have done a fairly typical 5, 7 or even 9 years between 1901 and 1911 ???

Just cautioning - as I have no other info on him!

???

:-) M

Edited 1 August , 2021 by Matlock1418

[Skipo]

Good point Matlock - Thomas CASH, the soldier with the number 5616, joined the Leinsters in August 1898 at Birr. He stated he had previously served with the 3rd Leinsters Militia. I'm not sure if that means LYNN had also been a member of the 3rd Bn too?

[Keith_history_buff]

The number does not right for Regular service with the Leinsters.
https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/09/leinster-regiment-1st-2nd-battalions.html
I don't think he served in the Special Reserve or the Militia, though, given that he was born and lived in Kent.

[Skipo]

Yes, it's a mystery. His brother, Arthur Ernest LYNN of the Royal Irish Rifles, was killed in July 1916 having also grown up in Kent. 

[Keith_history_buff]

When I saw he was in the 6th Battalion, I checked to see if this was a TF battalion issuing its own numbers, but there were no TF battalions for Irish regiments, unlike the county infantry regiments elsewhere.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-prince-of-waless-leinster-regiment-royal-canadians/

[ss002d6252]

Some service battalions used their own range rather than the regular range.

Craig

[Keith_history_buff]

For dead soldiers, there is a way to look at the gratuity, and to determine from that how long the individual concerned had served in the army.

I think I have come across a surviving service record for 5/5619 Patrick Rafferty, not sure if that adds anything. 

[ss002d6252]

In this case Lynn had 28 months qualifying war service.

Craig

[Keith_history_buff]

There is a confusing pair of service records. One is for 5627 Quinn, first name James, born 1890. The second is for Quinn, first name Lawrence, no birth year given but born in Dublin. 

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Keith 

[PRC]

1 hour ago, Skipo said:

So, same question stands unfortunately as I cannot find his service record even with this new number: Using 5617 or 42523 is it possible to see when LYNN enlisted? He was born in 1885 and it is doubtful whether he had served before 1911 as he appears inn that year's census as a Grocer's Assistant.

That enlistment date will come from checking out the Royal Fusiliers numbers.
The Leinsters number can be used to try and identify when he transferred in from his previous unit, (hopefully the Royal Fusiliers).
The Connaughts number can be used to try and identify when he transferred in from his previous unit, (hopefully the Leinsters).

The most common approach is to identify nearby service numbers and then look to see if they have surviving service records or in the case of enlistment dates other sources such as the the Silver War Badge and its’ associated Roll. Approximations can also be be calculated from the length of service details that are sometime included on Medical adnissions records, (on FindmyPast)

So starting with 42523 Royal Fusiliers, (SDGW incidentally shows born Shoreham, Kent, resident Oprington, Kent and enlisted Bromley, Kent.

Note – the award of the Victory Medal and British War Medal, (VM & BWM), would mean that the soldier concerned did not enter a Theatre of War until on or after the 1st January 1916. That would appear to apply to Albert Harry Lynn. Would make pre-war service, while not impossible, also much less likely.

GS/42521 Richard G. Holloway. VM& BWM only. (MiC) Richard George Holloway was killed in action with the 12th Battalion, 06/02/1917. Enlisted Chatham, (SDGW)
GS/42522 John Harris. VM& BWM only. (MiC) Deserted from the 6th Battalion at Chatham on the 22nd October 1916. Enlisted at Maidstone 20th July 1916. (Police Gazette \ FMP or BNA)
GS/42524 John Paffett. VM& BWM only. (MiC)
GS/42526 Walter Shortridge. VM& BWM only. (MiC)
GS/42527 Arthur Simmons. VM& BWM only. (MiC) Was serviving with the 1st Battalion when he was admitted to the 18th General Hospital on the 11th October 1918. He stated he had completed 3 years in the Army, with 30 months in the Field Force. (FMP). That would imply a 1915 enlistment?
GS/42528 Walter Scott. VM& BWM only. (MiC)
GS/42529 James Walpole. VM& BWM only. (MiC) James Walpole "died" on the 19th April 1917 while serving in France & Flanders with the 20th Battalion. Enlisted Camberwell.(SDGW)
GS/42530 Frank Arnold. VM& BWM only. (MiC) Frank Arnold was killed in action on the 14th April 1917 serving with the 1st Battalion. Enlisted Leatherhead. (SDGW)

There isn’t a separate number range that doesn’t have the GS prefix. 

16 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

In this case Lynn had 28 months qualifying war service.

As he died on the 25th October 1918 my fingers tells me that takes you back to roughly June 1916, which would be more likely to tie with John Harris than Arthur Simmons. Perhaps worth a check for qualifying service periods for one of either Holloway, Walpole or Arnold.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 1 August , 2021 by PRC
Typo

[Skipo]

All,

 

Many thanks for all these replies. Much appreciated. A real education and it's amazing what can be deducted. Peter and Craig seem to have a rough consensus that he joined up in  mid 1916. I'm unfortunately now on imminent childcare duties so I will come back to this thread ASAP and see where to go next.

 

Thanks again to all who have helped today with multiple WW1-newbie questions.

 

Best,

 

Skip

[ss002d6252]

15 hours ago, PRC said:

That enlistment date will come from checking out the Royal Fusiliers numbers.
The Leinsters number can be used to try and identify when he transferred in from his previous unit, (hopefully the Royal Fusiliers).
The Connaughts number can be used to try and identify when he transferred in from his previous unit, (hopefully the Leinsters).

The most common approach is to identify nearby service numbers and then look to see if they have surviving service records or in the case of enlistment dates other sources such as the the Silver War Badge and its’ associated Roll. Approximations can also be be calculated from the length of service details that are sometime included on Medical adnissions records, (on FindmyPast)

So starting with 42523 Royal Fusiliers, (SDGW incidentally shows born Shoreham, Kent, resident Oprington, Kent and enlisted Bromley, Kent.

Note – the award of the Victory Medal and British War Medal, (VM & BWM), would mean that the soldier concerned did not enter a Theatre of War until on or after the 1st January 1916. That would appear to apply to Albert Harry Lynn. Would make pre-war service, while not impossible, also much less likely.

GS/42521 Richard G. Holloway. VM& BWM only. (MiC) Richard George Holloway was killed in action with the 12th Battalion, 06/02/1917. Enlisted Chatham, (SDGW)
GS/42522 John Harris. VM& BWM only. (MiC) Deserted from the 6th Battalion at Chatham on the 22nd October 1916. Enlisted at Maidstone 20th July 1916. (Police Gazette \ FMP or BNA)
GS/42524 John Paffett. VM& BWM only. (MiC)
GS/42526 Walter Shortridge. VM& BWM only. (MiC)
GS/42527 Arthur Simmons. VM& BWM only. (MiC) Was serviving with the 1st Battalion when he was admitted to the 18th General Hospital on the 11th October 1918. He stated he had completed 3 years in the Army, with 30 months in the Field Force. (FMP). That would imply a 1915 enlistment?
GS/42528 Walter Scott. VM& BWM only. (MiC)
GS/42529 James Walpole. VM& BWM only. (MiC) James Walpole "died" on the 19th April 1917 while serving in France & Flanders with the 20th Battalion. Enlisted Camberwell.(SDGW)
GS/42530 Frank Arnold. VM& BWM only. (MiC) Frank Arnold was killed in action on the 14th April 1917 serving with the 1st Battalion. Enlisted Leatherhead. (SDGW)

There isn’t a separate number range that doesn’t have the GS prefix. 

As he died on the 25th October 1918 my fingers tells me that takes you back to roughly June 1916, which would be more likely to tie with John Harris than Arthur Simmons. Perhaps worth a check for qualifying service periods for one of either Holloway, Walpole or Arnold.

Cheers,
Peter

Walpole - 12 months or less.
Arnold - 12 months or less.
Holloway - 12 months or less.


Craig

[PRC]

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

Walpole - 12 months or less.
Arnold - 12 months or less.
Holloway - 12 months or less.

Thanks for checking all three - I was honestly expecting only one

As Walpole died February 1917 and the other two in April 1917, at a minimum that means a 1916 enlistment \ Derby Scheme mobilisation \ conscription. Which to me makes the information provided on the medical admission record for Simmons in 1918 even more suspect and it can safely be ignored as a clerical error.

Cheers,
Peter

[Skipo]

8 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

Walpole - 12 months or less.
Arnold - 12 months or less.
Holloway - 12 months or less.


Craig

Ah, now I see the calculator. Penny has dropped!

 

Thanks for this Craig, it'll be very useful.

[ss002d6252]

6 hours ago, PRC said:

Thanks for checking all three - I was honestly expecting only one

As Walpole died February 1917 and the other two in April 1917, at a minimum that means a 1916 enlistment \ Derby Scheme mobilisation \ conscription. Which to me makes the information provided on the medical admission record for Simmons in 1918 even more suspect and it can safely be ignored as a clerical error.

Cheers,
Peter

They were quick in the head calculation so no time expended, not that I mind in any case.

Craig