POW Camp

[Cavalryman24]

Hi,

 

I am trying with out any success, to locate a POW Camp in Flary, Lillartil or Lellartel. I am researching a Pte Victor Ernest Ball of The Queens (Royal West Surrey Regiment), 7th Bn number G/22090. He had previously enlisted in the 17th Lancers number 23537, prior to his transfer to the Queens. He died  in a POW Camp at the above loaction according to Soldiers Effects on 19th June 1918 and buried in France. I have been unable to find him in the ICRC POW records, so any help or thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. Link to record on Ancestry https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1543&h=573928&tid=&pid=&queryId=97eb29e8483f80daaa7d3034c5f1ad30&usePUB=true&_phsrc=kGL3492&_phstart=successSource

 

yours aye

Steve

[charlie962]

The CWGC Concentration reports show he was buried by the Germans.

[Woodnbits]

This doesn't answer your question.

But this may be of interest if you haven't seen them FMP has 4 pages relating to an enquiry into the wounding of an officer and 10 OR including 22090 Pte VE Ball

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2FSUPP%2F21525

 

Tim

[Cavalryman24]

Thanks for the replies I found the court of enquiry very interesting and now we know he was buried by the Germans it still begs the question around the Soldiers Effects record of a POW camp that I cannot find.  I have attached a image of Pte Ball when he was a 17th Lancer.

[charlie2]

There is no mention of him being at a PoW camp in the ICRC records. All the documents record is that his ID disc was forwarded on to the Central Information Bureau in Berlin or Potsdam by the Bavarian War Ministry without any further information. I would suggest that the Germans found him dead on the battlefield or he died of his wounds very shortly after being captured.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/2933827/3/2/
 

Charlie

[Cavalryman24]

Many thanks for the info Charlie. as you suggest he probably died from wounds.

[charlie2]

5 hours ago, Cavalryman24 said:

I am trying with out any success, to locate a POW Camp in Flary, Lillartil or Lellartel.

Steve, the place in soldiers effects is „Flavy-le-Martel“ (SSW of St. Quentin), probably a concentration point for PoWs before they were moved to Germany.

Charlie

 

[Cavalryman24]

Brilliant Charlie thank you very much for your help. Steve

[PRC]

The War Diary mentions a raid on a German MG post on the night of the 19th/20th June 1918. Both in the main diary and in an appendix it gives the casualties as one man wounded, probably friendly fire from the barrage. But there is a possibility buried in the appendix narrative that there might have been another casualty:-

5. The centre party under 2/Lt Hollins reached the M.G. Post at road junction W.21.d.15.60 and found that it was unoccupied and almost filled up. As touch had been lost woth 2/Lt. MARSHALL’s party on the right, this party then withdrew. In the meantime, 2/Lt. MARSHALL’s party on the right, who had crossed the road too soon, got up to the wire in front of the trench about W.2.a.1.2 and found it was very high concertina wire and apparently thick. Some bombs were thrown at them from the trench and they threw bombs back but without knowing with what effect. The Green lights for withdrawal were then sent up, and this party withdrew. Both this party and 2.Lt. HOLLIN’S party report enemy M.G. fire in short-bursts from the direction of the Orchard or possibly  from the post at (?).21.d.2.4. The left party under 2/Lt. SMITH soon after starting, and keeping too far to the left, came under fire from an enemy M.G. which they took to be in the post (?).21.d.2.4. He sent out a runner to get in touch with 2/Lt. HOLLINS, but he never returned. This party withdrew on the Green lights going up. http://qrrarchive.websds.net/PDF/QW00719180608.pdf

My highlight. The runner appears to have been heading into an area where there was possibly no longer any British presence, and reading between the lines, on terrain where all involved were pretty close to being "locationally challenged".

The only reference to Private Ball on a Casualty List I could find at this time was in the edition of the Coventry Evening Telegraph dated November 23, 1918. He was on a list of Coventry and District men but shown under the category Prisoner of War. By the final months of the war the notification system seems to have broken down from the German side. Having been overwhelmed by the numbers captured in the German Spring Offensive, and the subsequent catch up, it doesn't ever seem to have fully recovered.

So unless he was taken earlier in that offensive you may struggle to find out when he was captured, and that will make a difference. A significant number of the unwounded captured in the German Spring Offensive were held in the German rear area and used as slave labour on tasks that were in direct contravention of the Geneva convention, freeing up German manpower to carry on the attack. Fed close to a starvation diet to keep them docile, while carrying out heavy manual labour tasks, death was not uncommon. The break down in the prisoner notification system also gave the Germans plausible deniability as to what was going on, but also meant the men could not be visited by the Red Cross and receive Red Cross food parcels and medication.

Hope that helps,
Peter

[Cavalryman24]

Many thanks Peter, I  came to  the same conclusion as you that Victor is probably the missing runner. I appreciate the link to the newspaper article. Thanks again to all who have responded, I can now write an informative biography for Victor including all the information supplied by the forum members.  

 

Steve