30th Infantry Battalion, 8th Infantry Brigade, Australian Imperial Force, Jan-Oct 1917

[Skipo]

30th Infantry Battalion, 8th Infantry Brigade, Australian Imperial Force, Jan-Oct 1917

 

All,

 

Very grateful for any tips on how to research the above battalion between January 1917 and that October. Are there online War Diaries available as per British infantry battalions? If not, where is best to look?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Skip

[Keith_history_buff]

Here you are.

Best wishes
Keith


Link to AWM website
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1339195 

[Skipo]

Many thanks indeed Keith. That's very much appreciated.

[Skipo]

Just trying to backfill some gaps - the man from the 30th Bn who I'm researching landed at Plymouth (from Australia) on 16 June 1916 and according to his service record was posted to the "8th Training Battalion" before embarking for France on 31 December to join the 30th Bn on 1 Jan 1917.

 

Grateful for any views on where the 8th Training Battalion was in the UK.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Skip

 

[Guest]

Mate,

The records I have on ALH soldiers shown the 8 Trg Bn at Codford UK

S.B

[Skipo]

Many thanks Steve. Very much appreciate your reply.

[Fromelles]

On 01/08/2021 at 06:57, stevebecker said:

 

The records I have on ALH soldiers shown the 8 Trg Bn at Codford UK

 

Reinforcements for the battalions of the 8th Brigade (29th, 30th, 31st and 32nd Bns) were trained by the 8th Tng Bn prior to being drafted into their respective Unit. The 8th Tng Bn was established, immediately upon the Brigade disembarking, in Egypt on 18 Jan 16. It embarked for England on 4 Jun 16, and established itself at Larkhill (17 Jun 16), moved to Codford Camp (29 Sep 16) and finally Hurdcott Camp (15 Nov 16). The 8th Tng Bn was a subunit of C Training Group (11 Aug - 9 Dec 16) renamed No.5 Training Group (9 Dec 16 - 5 Nov 17).

On 5 Nov 17 the 8th Tng Bn was broken up with A & D Companies (29th & 32nd Bns) being allocated to the 15th Tng Bn and B & C Companies (30th & 31st Bns) being allocated to the 14th Tng Bn. The 14th & 15th Tng Bns (along with the 12th & 13th Tng Bns) were grouped together to form the 3rd Training Brigade (Codford) with a surplus of men marching out to the Overseas Training Brigade.

There's not a lot of info on training establishments, however I've pieced together what I've found after a quick search...

Dan

[Skipo]

Dan - many thanks for this. It's very useful.

 

I am researching a member of the 30th about whom, from his service record, I have so far written the following:

After a month at the New South Wales Signal School he embarked the troopship H.M.A.T. Nestor on 9 April at Sydney as a member of the 5th Reinforcement Draft, aged 35. Changing to the H.M.A.T. Franconia at Alexandria on 6 June, he landed at Plymouth on the 16th.

Having joined the 8th Training Battalion, Charles boarded the S.S. Princess Henrietta at Folkestone on New Year’s Eve and was taken on strength by the 30th Infantry Battalion, 8th Infantry Brigade, Australian Imperial Force, as part of a 155-man reinforcement draft, on 1 January 1917. 

 

From the above do you think he came to the UK with the 8th Tng Bn and then moved to Larkhill, Codford and Hurdcott before embarking for France?

 

Best,

 

Skip

[Fromelles]

Skip,

If you could provide the individual's details it would be easier to give an accurate assessment.

It appears your man would have arrived in Egypt, some time in May 16, as part of the 5/30th Bn and would have immediately marched into the 8th Tng Bn ('B' Company). With the 5th Division preparing to embark for France in June 1916 the 8th Tng Bn relocated itself to England.

You state your man disembarking in Plymouth on 16 Jun 16, this fits in nicely with the establishment of the 8th Tng Bn at Larkhill on 17 Jun 16. He would have relocated along with the 8th Tng Bn's change of locations until finally being drafted to France. On arrival in France your man should have spend some time training at the 5th ADBD (5th Australian Division Base Depot) at either Etaples or Havre (can't remember the date it moved) before finally being Taken on Strength of the 30th Battalion.

Again, if you provide the man's details it would be a great help.

Cheers,

Dan

 

[Skipo]

Hello Dan,

 

Thanks, thanks that's very useful indeed. The man was Pte Charles BURGESS [2794]. I have his service record, from which the dates are taken. It's your valuable input that actually helps put the meat on the bones though, so very much appreciated.

 

ATB,

 

Skip

[Fromelles]

Hi Skip,

Pte Burgess' file is a mess, it consists of two men with exactly the same name and number -

• 2794 Charles Burgess - 5/30th Bn
• 2794 Charles Burgess - 6/40th Bn

Your man, according to the Army Form B.103 enlisted on 22 Jan 16, however his application to join the AIF is dated 22 Feb 16 and his Attestation forms (2) are dated both 1st and 2nd Feb 16. There is nothing on his records as to his location from enlistment until 29 Feb 16 when he attended the Signal School (29 Feb - 29 Mar 16). He transferred to the 5th Reinforcement to the 30th Battalion (5/30th Bn) on 31 Mar 16.

The 5/30th Bn embarked from Sydney per HAMT A71 Nestor on 9 Apr 16, and would have disembarked at Egypt sometime in mid May (will need to confirm the exact date). Though it is not recorded in his records he would have immediately marched into the 8th Training Battalion. Pte Burgess, along with the 8th Tng Bn, embarked from Alexandria, Egypt per HMT Franconia on 6 Jun 16 and disembarked at Plymouth, England on 16 Jun 16. 

Pte Burgess marched out of the 8th Tng Bn and proceeded to France via Folkestone on the 31 Dec 16. Upon arrival in France he marched into the 5th ADBD on 1 Jan 17 only to march out the next day to join the 30th Bn on 2nd Jan 17, and finally was Taken on Strength of the 30th Bn on 7 Jan 17. He was wounded (remained on duty) on 26 Feb 17, but was finally KIA 12 Oct 17 (Battle of Passchendaele).

The amalgamating of the two Burgess files doesn't look to have been noticed as there doesn't look to be a seperate file listed on the NAA web site for 2794 Charles Burgess 6/40th Bn.

Cheers,

Dan

 

Edited 15 August , 2022 by Fromelles

[Skipo]

Hi Dan,

 

Thanks again, this is extremely useful and helps tie pieces from both his service record and the 30th war diary together. Much appreciated.

 

Do you know where the Nestor docked in Egypt? And do you know where the 8th TB was based in Egypt?

 

Next step is to try and find a photo of him. I live in hope!

 

All the best and thanks again for so much help,

 

Skip

 

[UKAIF]

Also worth obtaining a copy of 'The Purple and Gold - A History of the 30th Battalion' complied by Lieut-Colonel H. Sloan. My copy is a modern pre-print of the 1938 original and has the Roll of Honour which includes 2794 Pte C. Burgess but there is no other index to help readers. When he joined 30th Bn the division had moved back "to Rainneville, Coisy, and Vignacourt, some eight miles from Amiens" (Sloan p.119) and it remained there over Christmas and New Year. The unit War Diary will give more precise details.

The 'Story of The Fifth Australian Division' by Capt A.D. Ellis MC, Part III, Chapter VII 'Winter on the Somme' gives some useful detail on the division and what it was up to when he joined and subsequently while he was with it.

[Fromelles]

Skip,

I believe they disembarked at Suez, but they could have disembarked further up the canal, I'm not absolutely certain. If I find anything definite I'll let you know.

The 8th Tng Bn was located at Tel-el-Kebir which I believe it was located for the duration of its stay while in Egypt.

Dan

Edited 6 August , 2021 by Fromelles

[Skipo]

Thanks a lot Dan. Every little nugget builds the picture and I very much appreciate all your replies.

 

Best,

 

Skip

On 06/08/2021 at 17:25, UKAIF said:

Also worth obtaining a copy of 'The Purple and Gold - A History of the 30th Battalion' complied by Lieut-Colonel H. Sloan. My copy is a modern pre-print of the 1938 original and has the Roll of Honour which includes 2794 Pte C. Burgess but there is no other index to help readers. When he joined 30th Bn the division had moved back "to Rainneville, Coisy, and Vignacourt, some eight miles from Amiens" (Sloan p.119) and it remained there over Christmas and New Year. The unit War Diary will give more precise details.

The 'Story of The Fifth Australian Division' by Capt A.D. Ellis MC, Part III, Chapter VII 'Winter on the Somme' gives some useful detail on the division and what it was up to when he joined and subsequently while he was with it.

Thanks for this tip UKAIF - will have a look for Sloan's book as well as the divisional history. Much appreciated.

[Fromelles]

Skip,

Here's a link to - Story of the Fifth Australian Division - it's one of the better histories 

Dan

[Skipo]

Great, much appreciated Dan. Very useful indeed.

 

Cheers,

 

Skip

[Fromelles]

Skip,

This may also be of interest: Sea Transport of the AIF page 133-134 gives a breakdown of Convoy 19, which HMAT Nestor was part of.

My interest is the 32nd Battalion, the 5/32nd Bn (also Convoy 19) embarked from Adelaide per HMAT Shropshire on 25 Mar 16 and disembarked at Suez on 24 Apr 16, about 1/4 of these reinforcements were sent to England per HMT Franconia on 6 Jun 16 (disembarked at Plymouth 16 Jun 16), from 8th Tng Bn, Tel-el-Kebir.

All available records show either the men were initially allotted to the 8th Tng Bn, Tel-el-Kebir or they don't give any mention as to where they were initially sent, of which it can be assumed they too were sent to the 8th Tng Bn. From there a large number transferred out to other Units, a small number were taken on strength the the 32nd Bn while in Egypt, from the 8th Tng Bn and the rest were sent to France per HMT Huntsend on 20 Jun 16 (disembarked Marseilles 30 Jun 16), with the 5th ADBD, Etaples, and marched into 32nd Bn (2 Aug 16). It's unclear when these men were officially transferred across from the 8th Tng Bn to the 5th ADBD, but must have been before the 8th Tng Bn left Egypt

Dan

[Skipo]

Dan,

 

Thanks again. Having now added the 30th's war diary, I'm pretty happy that BURGESS' story is as complete as there is room for (it's for a village roll of honour). I guess what would really complete it is a photograph of the man himself. Do you know of any online or physical depository of such images?

Best,

 

Skip

[Fromelles]

Skip,

Other than searching the AWM's collection, the following are excellent sites -

WWI Pictorial Honour Rolls (sorted by State)

National Archives of Australia - Albums (mostly images of officers)

Unfortunately, Charles Burgess doesn't appear in either

Did you end up finding out the date Burgess disembarked in Egypt?

Dan

[Skipo]

Thanks Dan, shame his photo is not on either of them.

 

His service record doesn't note the date he landed in Egypt unfortunately. Looking at it again I see that it has been annotated "Do not confuse with 2794 Burgess Chas. 40th Bn" at the top right of the first page ... exactly what you previously posted so spot on!

 

Best,

 

Skip