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Supply & Transport Corps


stewart scott

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I recently acquired a supposed one-man set of medals, badges and photos. The man is A. Williams (or A.E. Williams). Items include: a LS&GC Medal inscribed in cursive script Staff Sgt A.E. Williams S & T Corps, with swivel suspender and post 1917 ribbon with white edging; a photo of a young corporal very much in the Edwardian style; a photo of a much older man who I would say is the same chap and he wears a LS&GC ribbon on his tunic and what I presume to be a WO's sleeve badge, also in this Lot; a 1914/15 Star with inscription Lieut A. Willams S&T CORPS; a BWM & VM both of which have had a two-initial stamp prior to the Williams name, but the first of the initials on both medals has been made illegible leaving only the 'A', so, Lieut A. Williams and both have had 'S&T CORPS' added after 'Williams'; all four medals mounted for wear and include an MiD oak leaf; ribbon bar with small MiD oak leaf attached; pair of collar badges (?) for S&T Corps, good quality with bronze finish. This Lot came from a private household with no other militaria present and being dealt with by a solicitor due to illness of the householder so unfortunately I do not even have the name of the householder. Seem to be a number of anomalies but I am not knowledgeable enough to know if these 'fit', eg the older man, if a WO, must have had this photo taken 1917 or after, yet the trio are to a Lt; I'm assuming the older man is the same as the corporal who has the 'staff sergeant' LS&GC Medal. Can anyone offer any clues please. I don't really ahve anything to go by in terms of searching for records as no service number and a rather common Williams with the jury out on the correct initial. Many thanks. Stewart

Williams (1).jpg

Williams (2).jpg

Williams medals & badges.JPG

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Stewart,

Officers had only their rank & name indented on their War & Victory medals.  Williams has added his unit (S&T Corps) to his pair of medals.

His 1914-15 star should have his unit so that is correct.

The photo of him as a WO1 would have been taken late war or postwar. 

Concerning his insignia, Frogsmile will know better than I & he will pick up on this shortly I am certain.

Nice set of medals, insignia, & those photos are SUPERB!

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Hi, thanks for this. Yes, I'm aware that officers would not have had a unit on their BWM & VM and I can only assume (IF, all of this 'adds up') that he (or family) added them unaware of this (or perhaps aware but just wanted it on?). Of course, the BWM & VM have been 'tampered with' by having the first initial of the two-initial name 'erased' by what looks like several strikes with a small pin-punch. But also, what do you make of his 1914/15 Star having Lieut stamped on it when the late, or post war photo has him as a WO1? Could he have been raised-up in rank for the duration and then 'demoted' again - not something I know anything about. Again, my thanks for your kind response and would welcome any further comment. From what I have read-up on, the younger man, at least, would have been in India as the S&T Corps was 'born' when the Indian Army Service Corps was renamed? Regards, Stewart

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The 1914-15 star should have the rank Williams had when he entered the theater of war.

Do you have his MIC, that should give the date he entered the theater & his rank then & subsequently.

If you are able to post photos of the naming on his medals that might assist.

Edited by RNCVR
,
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Presumably William's was in receipt of a pension, thus his Service record should be available.  Do you possess any documents for him?

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Hello again. Regrettably, I have no documentation whatsoever and, as mentioned earlier, I have no Service number for when he was a 'ranker' and the rather common name doesn't help. I have tried searching TNA but to no avail. I don't think the medals would help as they have been altered anyway, so weren't his originally (unless they were named incorrectly?). What can be seen is Lieut A. Williams (with the addition of S&T CORPS) and, of course, the 'erasure' of an initial in advance of the 'A'. I realise that Service records are the key to this, but how to trace them with very little to go on. I never expected a 'definitive' response from any one of the very kind fraternity out there, but rather was hoping for some suggestions as to the 'anomalies' that I have alluded to - particularly, I guess, his Star bearing LIEUT but what must be a later photo as a WO (and IF everything is 'right' about this group of items, perhaps we may assume that the WO photo with LS&GC ribbon was taken prior to receipt of the WW1 campaign trio - again, is it possible that he may have held a temporary rank of Lt for the duration but the reverted to WO following end of hostilities?). Thanks, Stewart

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There is a Medal Index Card to a Lieut E A Williams S&T Corps that seems to have been issued for BWM/VM in 1933 ? Could it be him but they got the initials the wrong way round and so he scratched out the E ? A guess but worth following through to Roll etc to see where it leads.

 

eg have a look at this card for a sub-conductor E A Williams S&T Corps that refers to his medals as Lieut. I think it is all same man ? Has a useful address in Brook Cottage, Wigmore,Herefordshire refering to Mrs AE Williams

 

Charlie

 

Edit- 1939 Register has for Brook Cottage Wigmore has Alfred Edward Williams, retired R Indian ASC warrant officer. Looks like your man!

Edited by charlie962
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Hi Charlie. Wow, that's fabulous (I've just printed the MiC off - as I'm sure you are aware, it's free downloads at the moment)! As a matter of further interest, the LS&GC medal has the initials A.E. but engraved as a E. - the 'a' in a lower case style but upper case size, if that makes sense! Can't replicate it here and can't get a decent photo of the engraving.

To further show my ingnorance, what is the '1939 Register' please?

Kind regards, Stewart

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Hello again Charlie. Apologies, didn't have my thinking cap on - I know what the 1939 Register is. Thanks again for your help - and to all respondents - very much appreciated. Kind regards, Stewart

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I'm glad that all those photos, medals and badges make sense now as being indeed for the same man. Born 13/2/1875 per '39 Register.

There is a public tree on abcestry for him but to be treated with caution- eg has a link to a service record which is for Arthur not Alfred although both about same age and both married a Clara- in fact tree has wrong marriage details as well-see below ! Might be worth contacting tree owner anyway?

 

I note he was known in the Army as Edward. For example the baptism of his son Leslie Edward in 1909 at Sialkot India has him as Edward, Staff Sgt, S&T Corps. Even the newspaper report of his marriage 1907 has him as Edward. Plenty of scope for confusion.

courtesy FindmyPast Newspapers: (re Wigmore Parish)

533328898_GWFWilliamsAESTCorpsmarriage1907.JPG.74450ea7342c565fa1102dcf49b76a2f.JPG

 

 

Edited by charlie962
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