Administrative control of unit strengths recruitment and costs during WW1

[Solent]

I need to expand where this data first was reported by Identifying what superseded the Army Muster and Pay Rolls after the Cardwell Reforms in 1868 and 1874 which removed / changed a lot of administrative reporting functions including those Army Muster & Pay Roll.
What replaced these missing elements in administrative control in reporting the units strengths , recruitment , plus costs. Which extends to the same during conflicts or oversea occupation/ Stations from 1874  to WW2

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Solent said:

I need to expand where this data first was reported by Identifying what superseded the Army Muster and Pay Rolls after the Cardwell Reforms in 1868 and 1874 which removed / changed a lot of administrative reporting functions including those Army Muster & Pay Roll.
What replaced these missing elements in administrative control in reporting the units strengths , recruitment , plus costs. Which extends to the same during conflicts or oversea occupation/ Stations from 1874  to WW2

These are highly specialised areas and you really need to tap into the academic work of two particular authors, Edward M Spiers and Alan Ramsey Skelley, who both worked on such matters.  Their books are available to order from public and specialised lending libraries.  
You seem to be attempting serious research, but without going about it in the venues and sources where such detailed information is more usually found.  This forum is not such a place.

Edited 27 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Solent]

18 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

These are highly specialised areas and you really need to tap into the academic work of two particular authors, Edward M Spiers and Alan Ramsey Skelley, who both worked on such matters.  Their books are available to order from public and specialised lending libraries.  
You seem to be attempting serious research, but without going about it in the venues and sources where such detailed information is more usually found.  This forum is not such a place.

Hi Frogsmile.

Thanks for the direction given for the Author’s, of whom I will investigate. 
Yes I fully agree with you this is a large project of which I research from which the numbers are required to support the Military Provost Staff Corps expansion of its history.
I have previously exhausted all the available resources of direct contacting of Army Libraries, Archives,Museums etc available. All of whom could not provide the data nor the reference to the reporting method used in my quest.

The Forum as you and many others are aware is a method of which questions and answers are used to resolve topics of interest and advancement in personal knowledge shearing which is what I seek.

Already Keith has contacted me with a perfect example of this, by shearing the method used in reporting the recruitment elements of my Question which is the “ GARBA data. ( General Annual Report on the British Army. Which I will visit) he obtained this detail from Maureen again from the GWF, so this forum was the right place for the search I do not say this in any form of disrespect by far the opposite indeed.

I now need to understand the Methods used in obtaining the monthly units Strengths and costs.

Mike

 

[FROGSMILE]

I don’t doubt that you can make contacts here Mike, but you do need a specialist research library.  How many such libraries have you actually visited?  Who have you spoken to at the National Army Museum, or the Prince Consort’s Library at Aldershot, which has been open to the Public since 2019, and which specialises in the British Army?

My point about this forum is that it is really focused on the First World War and, although many forum members are open to sharing and try to assist with basic questions relating to the armed services generally, the long term and highly detailed research information that you seek is not contained here, or in its sister site, the Long Long Trail.

The two authors that I’ve mentioned were prolific in publishing books about the organisation and evolution of the Army during the period that you are interested in.  Their books are available via large public libraries, although might require ordering depending on the size and scope of the library concerned.  I would recommend the Prince Consort Library as a good start point and now that the National lockdown has been lifted services should gradually begin to return to normal.  Good luck with your research.

Edited 28 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Solent]

Again Frogsmile another great hint which I will follow many thanks my friend 

Mike

[FROGSMILE]

55 minutes ago, Solent said:

Again Frogsmile another great hint which I will follow many thanks my friend 

Mike

The librarians at the Prince Consort Library have a first class reputation for assisting authors and students writing research papers and theses.  I’d advise you to explain what it is that your aiming to do and let them assist you with the right sources rather than assume that only, e.g. GARBA, contains the information that you seek.  The library’s reputation as a centre of excellence in its field is over a century old.  It is consulted by writers from all over Europe and the US.

Edited 28 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Solent]

Many Thanks I am in the process of emailing them and obtaining a copy of  the below which highlight the changes made on the reform :

The British Army 1815–1914 

Edited ByHarold E. Raugh

 

Mike

[FROGSMILE]

5 minutes ago, Solent said:

Many Thanks I am in the process of emailing them and obtaining a copy of  the below which highlight the changes made on the reform :

The British Army 1815–1914 

Edited ByHarold E. Raugh

 

Mike

I have that book.  It is a very good overview of the British Army during the Victorian period, but does not contain the detailed administrative information that you seek.  You really need to actually speak to someone, either by phone, or much better in person, face to face.  You won’t really be able to carry out all of the research from a seat behind your computer at home, much as I wish that wasn’t the case. 

Edited 28 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Solent]

Will do 

Take care

[Ron Clifton]

I believe that, after the 1881 reforms, many of the admin and pay functions were transferred to the commanders of districts for infantry, and to certain "officers i/c records" for other arms: usually colonels but with at least one retired officer and a small clerical staff to assist them. Among other responsibilities, they kept rolls of seniority for the purpose of promotion to NCO ranks, as well as pay accounts for all other ranks.

Ron

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Ron Clifton said:

I believe that, after the 1881 reforms, many of the admin and pay functions were transferred to the commanders of districts for infantry, and to certain "officers i/c records" for other arms: usually colonels but with at least one retired officer and a small clerical staff to assist them. Among other responsibilities, they kept rolls of seniority for the purpose of promotion to NCO ranks, as well as pay accounts for all other ranks.

Ron

I think you’re possibly referring to the Regimental Records Offices (RROs) Ron?  These used to be shown against every corps in the Army List each year if I recall correctly.  

[bootneck]

Have you looked at WO 113 & 114 at Kew?

[Solent]

Hi Bootneck (Great name)

WO 114 I have booked a desk for in two weeks time at NA (it’s hard to get a booking ) As for WO 113 No I haven’t so Grateful for the nudge I will arrange another trip up there.

 

 

Mike