Teresa2167 Posted 26 July , 2021 Share Posted 26 July , 2021 Hello everyone I'm needing help, I'm searching for a family member we have only just found out about him and im lost on where to start. The only thing I have is his service was 6127 ,the date of his death 4/11/1916 and the unit that he belonged to 67th rga. I have tried but I can't find a photo of this unit or him and it would make my family extremely happy. If anyone is able to help I would truly appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 26 July , 2021 Share Posted 26 July , 2021 34 minutes ago, Teresa2167 said: Hello everyone I'm needing help, I'm searching for a family member we have only just found out about him and im lost on where to start. The only thing I have is his service was 6127 ,the date of his death 4/11/1916 and the unit that he belonged to 67th rga. I have tried but I can't find a photo of this unit or him and it would make my family extremely happy. If anyone is able to help I would truly appreciate it What is his name ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 26 July , 2021 Share Posted 26 July , 2021 Gnr 2167 John Stephen KIER? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 26 July , 2021 Share Posted 26 July , 2021 (edited) Courtesy FindmyPast Newspapers: There are further mentions in local papers, incl noting he left a widow and son- that he never saw. I see his brother David, also of the RGA, was gassed in the German Spring offensive launched March 1918. Charlie Edited 26 July , 2021 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 July , 2021 Share Posted 26 July , 2021 (edited) For Teresa: In addition to what my learned colleagues have said, if he was RGA and killed by enemy “shellfire” then it seems quite likely that he became a casualty during a “counter battery fire” engagement. Both sides heavy artillery regularly sought out their counterparts on the opposing side before during and after major offensives and the methodology used became increasingly accurate and effective as the war progressed and technical advances were achieved. There were also cases of luck where a likely area was engaged with searching fire and batteries targeted by surprise. Many artillery casualties on both sides came about from both these types of engagement. Sometimes counter battery duels were going on simultaneously with both sides guns manned and frantically firing at each other unseen other than from detonations landing in and around their own positions. On other occasions men might be resting on their gun positions carrying out routine tasks, or even eating when completely unexpectedly, in comes enemy fire. You can perhaps imagine the outcome. In one circumstance men had to continue firing regardless, in another they might just take cover briefly and in others they might have to attempt to move their guns whilst under fire with all that that entailed. Things could vary considerably. For heavy guns (howitzers) firing see: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0MIc6ApsIWs Edited 26 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 27 July , 2021 Share Posted 27 July , 2021 (edited) War diary for 67 Siege Battery Royal Garrison Artillery is here at the National Archives. Can be downloaded free of charge at present, you just have to register.Army Troops. 67 Siege Battery Royal Garrison Artillery. 76 Siege Battery Royal Garrison... | The National Archives BUT the diary keeping in that battery was not very good. The whole of November 1916 is covered in 3 lines with no mention of incoming artillery fire or of casualties. BUT, as Frogsmile describes, counter battery fire was going on all the time on both sides and very often doesn't get a mention in war diaries at all. In November the battery was located about half way between Bazetin le Petit and Longueval. The cemetery in which he is buried is very near to the battery location. which was in the lower right hand quadrant of the square marked 10 on the map at: Side by side georeferenced maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland (nls.uk) The battery was equipped with 4, later 6, 8 inch Howitzers among the biggest of the big guns. A net search on 8 in Howitzer WW1 will find pictures. Look for the Mark VI which the battery received in September 1916 MaxD Edited 27 July , 2021 by MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 27 July , 2021 Share Posted 27 July , 2021 Hi, For a small fee you could get a B&W copy of what was accepted as being his Will. It will probably tell you very little though. Link. If you would link an image of his resting place, it looks like British War Graves would be able to send you one on a free of charge basis. Link If you have access to Ancestry, his medal roll record is here; his Medal Index Card here; his Soldiers Effects record here; and a transcription of Soldiers Died here Fold3 has a widows pension claim index card: Image sourced from Fold3 Wiki says '67th Siege Battery was formed under War Office Instruction 144 of October 1915 from one company of the North Scottish RGA (TF)'. I guess that the company referred to was #3, which was based in Broughty Ferry. The unit allocation for the Battery shows: Image sourced from the National Archives Unfortunately, for the date of his death the Brigade/Heavy Artillery Group war diary is missing. Looking at his 2167 service number, it would appear that John was a prewar territorial. Whilst his service papers don't seem to have survived, there are some for a few 'near number' men of 3 Company, North Scottish RGA which show: 2160 Anton - attested 11.3.1914 2163 Hackett - attested 25.3.1914 2164 Dobbin - attested 2.4.1914 2165 Cooper - attested 2.4.19142167 2175 Smith - attested 15.6.1914 2195 Young - attested 19.9.1914 Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 27 July , 2021 Share Posted 27 July , 2021 (edited) Deleted MaxD Edited 27 July , 2021 by MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa2167 Posted 28 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2021 Omg You guys are absolutely amazing Thank you so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa2167 Posted 28 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2021 On 26/07/2021 at 23:47, charlie962 said: Courtesy FindmyPast Newspapers: There are further mentions in local papers, incl noting he left a widow and son- that he never saw. I see his brother David, also of the RGA, was gassed in the German Spring offensive launched March 1918. Charlie I have tried to search for his brother's name with no luck how did you find out how amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 28 July , 2021 Share Posted 28 July , 2021 5 hours ago, Teresa2167 said: I have tried to search for his brother's name with no luck courtesy findmypast once more: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 28 July , 2021 Share Posted 28 July , 2021 (edited) Shamelessly following up on Charie's find, we have David Ferrier Keir, No 138315 of 254 Siege Battery RGA on the medal rolls. He has a second 7 digit number 1660349 which indicates he served on beyond 1920 and therefore his service record will still be with the Ministry of Defence. His medal card is here: Medal card of Keir, David F Corps: Royal Garrison Artillery Regiment No: ... | The National Archives (the roll (Ancestry) confrims his middle name) Ancestry.co.uk - UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920 254 Siege is the battery he started and ended the war with but we don't know when he joined.. 254 Siege went to France on 3 Feb 1917 equipped with 6 inch ( 26 cwt) Howitzers (still big guns but slightly smaller that the ones his brother served with.) 254 Siege doesn't have an individual war diary, their actvities are recorded in the diaries of the Heavy Artillery Groups they belonged to. If we assume his gassing was near to the newspaper date of 5 Apr 198, the diary of 1 HAG is the one that covers that time. That can be downloaded free at present here: Army Troops: 1 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery | The National Archives although he is unlikley to be mentioned by name. His name is among a number of members of 254 Siege recorded as gassed and sent to hospital on 21 Mar 1918. This was the first day of the massive German offensive Operation Michael and gas and shell attacks on our artillery were one of the preludes to the ground attacks He didn't go to France until, others cleverer than I may be able to suggest an enlistment date from his first number. MaxD Edited 28 July , 2021 by MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 28 July , 2021 Share Posted 28 July , 2021 The battery was located to the west of Armentieres in the vicinity of Erquinghem when Operation Michael started.Side by side georeferenced maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland (nls.uk) MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 28 July , 2021 Share Posted 28 July , 2021 Hi, From Royal Artillery Attestations 1883-1942 Findmypast has this. Images sourced from Findmypast Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 28 July , 2021 Share Posted 28 July , 2021 Chris's find shows his service dates in France in WW1, 4 Feb 1917 to 8 Jan 1919 which cross checks with the battery leaving for France on 3 Feb 1917. It also records that he had served in the RGA since 17 March 1909 and it would be legitimate to suggest that he was in the North Scottish RGA all that time given the places of birth of his children . It would appear that he re-joined into one of the batteries of the North Scottish RGA in May 1920 serving for a year. North Scottish Royal Garrison Artillery - Wikipedia. Note the reference to 254 Battery in the mobilisation paragraph. MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa2167 Posted 28 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2021 Seriously doe How are you guys so amazing? All this started because we wanted information John Stephen keir's son (my grandfather) and we have ended up with all this info about his father and uncle and nothing on him hahaha but I love it its incredible to think that there's a big family out there I am so extremely grateful to you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 29 July , 2021 Share Posted 29 July , 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Teresa2167 said: John Stephen keir's son (my grandfather) I don't see any query about John Stephen Keir's son but he would be outwith the time frame covered by this forum. Is that the Stephen Olson born 1916 named on the pension card? MaxD Edited 29 July , 2021 by MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa2167 Posted 29 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 29 July , 2021 Yes correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 29 July , 2021 Share Posted 29 July , 2021 Then this is not the forum for that search as he was only 2 when the Great War ended. Try RootsChat.Com - Index if you haven't already done so. MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 30 July , 2021 Share Posted 30 July , 2021 From the RFC Communiques: 29 April 1917 with observation by Lt JPV Lavelock 12 Sqn obtained 4 direct hits on a hostile battery and caused 2 explosions I hope this is of some interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa2167 Posted 1 August , 2021 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2021 Thanks very much everyone for taking the time to help me much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa2167 Posted 20 August , 2021 Author Share Posted 20 August , 2021 Hi guys Me again.... sorry to be a pain but I cant understand what this medal card says. I'm trying to get a photo of what his medal would have been like and a replica of his dog tags but I cant work out what it says. I imagine it's just a simple medal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 20 August , 2021 Share Posted 20 August , 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Teresa2167 said: I'm trying to get a photo of what his medal would have been like and a replica of his dog tags but I cant work out what it says. I imagine it's just a simple medal He was awarded the British War Medal and Victory Medal. He may not have ever received/claimed them as on the back of the card [long hand version] is; Officer in Charge Records requests authority to dispose of medals 30.10.1922 His current next of kin may still be able to claim them on behalf of the family. Edited 20 August , 2021 by Alan24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa2167 Posted 20 August , 2021 Author Share Posted 20 August , 2021 Oh wow How emotional Thank you so much. I must say from a family that didn't know their history to have all this information is truly heartwarming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa2167 Posted 16 October , 2022 Author Share Posted 16 October , 2022 Hi my great grand father was in the 67th seige also would you be able to let me know where I might be able to find a photo of him like the one above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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