Webley holster identification help

[dutchbarge]

Hello. The holster in the following photos is very similar in size and shape to that for the MKVI Webley.  While the holster will partially accept a MKVI (see photos), the length of the barrel will not permit the flap to be secured, indicating it was not made for any of the long barreled pre-WW2 Webley Marks.  I don't have a large frame Webley with a short barrel to test for fit so can't say whether this will accommodate Marks I thru V.  Neither do I have a Colt or Smith and Wesson M1917 to see if these might fit.

The quality of the holster is really superb suggesting that it was a private purchase item.  It came to me from a second hand store where it was found inside one of a stack of gold initialed Army Navy Co-operative Store leather luggage (circa 1900-1940).  No maker's mark, acceptance stamps, etc., just "1519" handwritten in ink on the reverse of the flap securing strap. The absence of belt loop and the presence of 'frog' straps/snap hook hangers seem to me to indicate cavalry.  The position of the 'frog' straps/snap hook hangers line up with the sword D rings on the Sam Browne belt. Note that worn on a SB belt the pistol would be in a cross-draw position.  All the holster furniture is silver plated, something I haven't encountered before, although I recall reading somewhere that the furniture on Sam Browne belts was meant to match regimental button colors (gold, silver or black).

The closest match I've found on the internet is what was described as a WW2 officer's cavalry holster for the .380 Webley.

Any help in identifying this holster will be most appreciated.  Cheers, Bill

 

Edited 26 July , 2021 by dutchbarge

[dutchbarge]

Nobody???????????????

[Thewebleyman]

Hello 

the holster looks almost new but assuming it is from the period have you considered that it might be for  a WG Army model  or possibly something even earlier such as a Tranter ?

Regards

 

[dutchbarge]

Thanks for your reply........I've tried the WG and it does not fit.......the snap hooks on the holster (apart from being silver plated) are identical to brass ones on a WW1 officer's haversack with impeccable provenance and in hand the holster has the correct feel for a period item.  Yesterday I had the opportunity to see if a Webley MKIV .380 fits the holster.  It fit perfectly.  I suppose I will try other marks as they become available, but as of now, the only revolver I can say with certainty fits this holster is the MK IV .380.

[FROGSMILE]

It does look to me like a holster for a short (4”) barrelled Webley of the type used between 1900 (where it’s shown in the officers’ dress regulations of that year as an approved type of service revolver) and the outset of WW1.  

Bear in mind that it would have been appropriate not just for cavalry, but all those on mounted duty, including horse and field artillery, Army Service Corps, and Veterinary Staff, and all officers of field rank and in field appointments (e.g. adjutants and general officers aides de camp).  

You’re right about matching metal furniture with insignia and, as it’s brown leather, that might also suggest the mounted officers (field rank, etc.) of militia battalions and some yeomanry until 1908.

Edited 10 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[dutchbarge]

The Frog once again Smiles upon this lost lamb with his wisdom.........imagine if instead of developing AI and robots to control us, we could get them to write a program which would enable all of our precious bits to talk......now that would really be something.

Cheers, Bill

[FROGSMILE]

On 06/08/2021 at 00:00, dutchbarge said:

The Frog once again Smiles upon this lost lamb with his wisdom.........imagine if instead of developing AI and robots to control us, we could get them to write a program which would enable all of our precious bits to talk......now that would really be something.

Cheers, Bill

I'm glad to help a little Bill and thought you might like to see this photo that features holsters for the 4" barrel Webley.  It was taken during the mobilisation departure parade of 1st Life Guards at their barracks in Knightsbridge, London - relatively few of them were to live out the year.  The commissioned officer on the left has the closed top holster, albeit with his arms folded, unfortunately we can only see its snout.  Although there was a recommended pattern for officers, it was not sacrosanct and there might be modifications to the fixture points, or to the placing of the cleaning rod to suit individual officers who purchased their leather equipment from their outfitter.  On the right are two SNCOs in HQ staff appointments and so equipped with state funded revolvers in open topped holsters with a securing tab, and binoculars in leather cases.  As a result you can get a good view of the style of the 'issue' pistol grip at that time.  It's interesting that the two SNCOs have opted for a cross draw arrangement, whereas the officer favours an arrangement that does not interfere with his sword frog.

Edited 10 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE