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South Irish Horse Query


GJW
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Hello,

I am struggling to locate this man in the SIH - He did serve in the RDF for sure. Also, that the below says he signed up in Ayr. Can I trust this source of information even though it is on Ancestry?

All help appreciated.

Thanks,

Gerard

image.png.6cc848329d1b79e0f6d3b0984fc3d21e.png

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21 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

What document is this?

Quickly making a stab - Rather looks like 'Soldiers Died in the Great War" to me.

Understand SDGW was compiled from official sources [so generally rather more reliable than, for example, a National Roll of the Great War entry!]

But who knows with Ancestry transcriptions ??!

Anyone got a SDGW to check?

:-) M

Edit: Gerard, My No 1 go to resource - WFA/Fold3 pension cards - sadly sheds no light on this SIH, only RDF - but you might like to know one card records for SHIEL, E. 21067: Died PoW, Diptheria [Diptheria being later added in 1932 it appears].

Looking at SHIEL. E. 21067 ICRC PoW record https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/5095839/3/2 I couldn't help but note on the line below a SHIELDS, W. 25780 also captured at Ronsoy, 21.3.18 - he was SIH = ???

Edited by Matlock1418
Edit & improve ICRC link, later added name & no. for more clarity
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Information comes from Soldiers Died in the Great War which in turn was compiled from information extracted from the soldiers service record. As the exercise was done in the early 1920's, not only were all the records still in existance, but the weeding process had probably barely begun.

So the real question is then how much do you trust (a) the service records and (b) the wisdom of the army clerk taking the extract.

Just to give an example, I've just been wading through some very confusing records for men who were conscripted in November 1916. They 'joined' at Huddersfield, were "accepted' at Halifax and 'reported' at Heaton. In subsequent pages all three places are shown as where they joined the Army. If they had died and had an entry on SDGW, who knows which one of the three would have been chosen by the relevant Army Clerk - and whether all Army Clerks would have made the same decision.

The formerly unit is almost certainly the very first unit they went to, most likely a Home Service unit, and if the soldiers records are lost it might be the only way of finding this out. A check of nearby service numbers for the Royal Dublin Fusiliers might turn up someone with surviving service records which shows a draft from the South Irish Horse.

Cheers,
Peter

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Taking my own advice led to a Medal Index Card for 21072 Thomas K. Ward Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

Thomas has surviving service records which shows he joined on either the 15th or 18th April 1917, (both dates are used) at Liverpool. He was posted to the South Irish Horse, service number 2878.

600290249_ThomasWardMedicalsourcedFMP.jpg.07189036cf61f7795412634b64f07249.jpg

His B.103 Casualty Form - Active is headed up "S.I.Hor" but there is then a very inconvenient tear.

2060244544_ThomasWardB103sourcedFMP.jpg.fb1e55df3cc7eb1d0aadb8b464aa90ed.jpg

The top lines of the report are very faded - I've tried increasing the contrast and darkening the image but I'm not sure it's any easier to make out that the first line is dated 30.8.17 and the report was received from the "S.I. Hse." and possibly relates to a Transfer to the R.D.F. but other interpretations are available :)

2025848025_ThomasWardB103sourcedFMPcrop.jpg.23791910ed8abc98ae1c82588d3caa9d.jpg

(All images courtesy of FindMyPast)

It's not entirely clear when he transferred to the Royal Dublin Fusiliers - at the time of his discharge in 1919 he is shown as 6th Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers attached 10th Machine Gun Battalion.

Hope that helps, (or at least doesn't muddy the water too much!)
Peter

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1 hour ago, corisande said:

That appears to be the case for E. Shiel [but W. Shields does seem to be there] - however, one wonders how they compiled their list ??

If just/predominantly off MIC, if he had not served o/s with them, then that would skew and probably explain his absence. ???

:-) M

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17 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

That appears to be the case for E. Shiel [but W. Shields does seem to be there] - however, one wonders how they compiled their list ??

Thomas Ward is also not on there. I don't think the website claims to be a complete list.

Cheers,
Peter

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58 minutes ago, PRC said:

first line is dated 30.8.17 and the report was received from the "S.I. Hse." and possibly relates to a Transfer to the R.D.F. but other interpretations are available

I read/interpret as you Peter [or is it a suggestive prompt from you!? - I don't think so]

32 minutes ago, PRC said:

I don't think the website claims to be a complete list.

Think likewise - maybe we have found two more names for them [?]

:-) M

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19 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Quickly making a stab - Rather looks like 'Soldiers Died in the Great War" to me.

Understand SDGW was compiled from official sources [so generally rather more reliable than, for example, a National Roll of the Great War entry!]

But who knows with Ancestry transcriptions ??!

Anyone got a SDGW to check?

:-) M

Edit: Gerard, My No 1 go to resource - WFA/Fold3 pension cards - sadly sheds no light on this SIH, only RDF - but you might like to know one card records Died PoW, Diptheria [Diptheria being later added in 1932 it appears].

Looking at SHIEL. E. 21067 ICRC PoW record https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/5095839/3/2 I couldn't help but note on the line below a SHIELDS, W. 25780 also captured at Ronsoy, 21.3.18 - he was SIH = ???

That is very interesting about the other POW - It was my understanding that the SIH merged into the Royal Irish Regiment in late 1917. 

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8 hours ago, PRC said:

Taking my own advice led to a Medal Index Card for 21072 Thomas K. Ward Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

Thomas has surviving service records which shows he joined on either the 15th or 18th April 1917, (both dates are used) at Liverpool. He was posted to the South Irish Horse, service number 2878.

600290249_ThomasWardMedicalsourcedFMP.jpg.07189036cf61f7795412634b64f07249.jpg

His B.103 Casualty Form - Active is headed up "S.I.Hor" but there is then a very inconvenient tear.

2060244544_ThomasWardB103sourcedFMP.jpg.fb1e55df3cc7eb1d0aadb8b464aa90ed.jpg

The top lines of the report are very faded - I've tried increasing the contrast and darkening the image but I'm not sure it's any easier to make out that the first line is dated 30.8.17 and the report was received from the "S.I. Hse." and possibly relates to a Transfer to the R.D.F. but other interpretations are available :)

2025848025_ThomasWardB103sourcedFMPcrop.jpg.23791910ed8abc98ae1c82588d3caa9d.jpg

(All images courtesy of FindMyPast)

It's not entirely clear when he transferred to the Royal Dublin Fusiliers - at the time of his discharge in 1919 he is shown as 6th Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers attached 10th Machine Gun Battalion.

Hope that helps, (or at least doesn't muddy the water too much!)
Peter

If both your man and my man were in the SIH - there is only a 100 numbers between them. 

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