Could anyone help me identify this uniform

[Kurtbio]

I am writing a biography of Dr Kurt von Holleben (1894-1947) who served in the Saxon Army 1st Field Artillery Regiment No. 12 .

This photograph is a photograph of his father Captain Curt Emil Ludwig von Holleben (1862-1910) who was the son of Prussian General of the Infantry Albert von Holleben.

Curt held the rank of Premier Lieutenant in the Prussian Army 2nd Guard Regiment of Foot before moving on to Captain z.D. in the Guards Landwehr Infantry. He was living in Silesia and then Wiesbaden.

I am assuming that he is shown here wearing a Landwehr Infantry uniform - could anyone confirm this for me.

Thank you

Colin Axon

 

[FROGSMILE]

There are several excellent proponents of German and Austro Hungarian uniforms and insignia who frequent here and I’m sure they’ll be along soon: @Saxon79  @The Prussian @GreyC @AOK4are just a few….

[AOK4]

Was he in Freikorps Heydebreck? I think the imperial crown on the sleeve is a sign for this unit (postwar).

Jan

[Amberg]

Kaiserliches Kraftfahrkorps.

[AOK4]

22 minutes ago, Amberg said:

Kaiserliches Kraftfahrkorps.

Definitely not, it's a postwar uniform in my opinion (shoulder boards and buttons without crown, just as the general style). The crown was used by the Freikorps Heydebreck, but I don't know whether they wore a crown on each side. The crown was also used by the Imperial Navy, but that doesn't match with the uniform.

Jan

[GreyC]

1 hour ago, AOK4 said:

Definitely not,

Definitely yes, (almost) I am afraid. And thanks to Frogsmile for the notification, as it is a rare uniform indeed and always nice to see.

It´s the Waffenrock Modell 1914 of the predecessor of the Kaiserliches Kraftfahrkorps, the Kaiserliches Freiwillige Automobil-Corps which in turn was established from the  Kaiserliche Automobil Club / Deutsche Automobil Club in Berlin which helped the army out with taxi-services during manouvres already in prewar times, from 1905 on, albeit wearing different uniforms.  They usually were **** rich and employed their own mechanics to service the cars. At the beginning of WW1 the army contracted car owners and mechanics (including the Saxon Royal Auto Corps) to do chauffeur services for the Großes Hauptquartier (Imperial Headquarter) and other higher command posts (Army, Armygroups, Divisions). The car owners (drivers) were classed as officers, the mechanics as Unteroffiziere.

In 1916 the Korps was converted  to the Kaiserliches Kraftfahr-Korps and it got now fully integrated in the army. Thus, the members of it got army-style uniforms with a special red as weapons colour. Sooo, the uniform, as written above: Waffenrock Kaiserliches Freiwillige Automobil-Korps modell 1914.

Here from my collection Prinz Waldemar von Preussen in the uniform as head of the KFAC. Note the crown on the sleeve and the belt-buckle.

GreyC

 

Edited 25 July , 2021 by GreyC

[AOK4]

GreyC,

Thanks, I've learned something new. I've checked Jürgen Kraus and must agree with you...

However, it can't be the man described in the first post as he had already died in 1910.

Jan

[Kurtbio]

Thank you - that is so interesting - so this is Kurt himself and not his father. 

In 1914 Kurt left his law studies at Heidelberg University to join the Imperial Volunteer Automobile Corps and served with them until transferring to the Saxon Army 1st Field Artillery Regiment No. 12 in 1916.

It looked so like his father - his father has the mustache and Kurt never appears in photographs with one afterwards -  so I just thought it was the father.

As you said he was not short of money.

Thank you everyone - I never expected to have an Automobile Corps photograph of him.

 

Colin

[FROGSMILE]

Very interesting to see this, thank you for posting.  It’s occurred to me that the British Army auxiliaries had a very similar (remarkably so) arrangement for their own motor car owner enthusiasts, and I wonder if the French Army did too? @battle of loos ?  The various Royal families of Europe seemed to become involved as patrons of these civilian automobile clubs and they were very much the new thing - the enthusiasm of the day, with young men aspiring to own one and young women delighting being at being passengers whilst secretly (and not so secretly) probably wishing to drive too.  I imagine that there was discussion in the print media about a military application for these vehicles in the same way as there was for aeroplanes and certainly at the British pre war manoeuvres much was made of both types of vehicle as useful for reconnaissance and battlefield communication.  It would be intriguing to know if each protagonist, the central powers and the triple alliance knew of the other’s scheme to mobilise car owners, and whether there was any element of emulation, i.e. who was first in establishing a voluntary service?

Edited 25 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[GreyC]

In Germany Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria and Württemberg all had Royal Automobile Clubs. I know for sure that the Prussian one was active for the army since 1905 because the regular Army did not yet have sufficent support units to cater for themselves. The Bavarian (founded  1913) and Saxon (1907) were also integrated in the respective armies. The Bavarians had two other private  auto-units that later got integrated.

During WW1 there were similar units in Germany with similar arrangements between those civilian clubs and the Prussian/German army for motorboats and landplanes, called Freiwilliges Motorboot-Korps / Kaiserliches Motorboot-Korps and Freiwiliges Flieger-Korps.

[Kurtbio]

You might find this second photograph interesting - presumably the coat that they would wear for driving.

[FROGSMILE]

The sheer quality of that coat literally shouts wealth and epitomises the sort of man that joined these Royal automobile associations!  Often fur lined and long they were seen as de rigeur coats for the open cabs of early automobiles.

Edited 25 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

23 minutes ago, GreyC said:

In Germany Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria and Württemberg all had Royal Automobile Clubs. I know for sure that the Prussian one was active for the army since 1905 because the regular Army did not yet have sufficent support units to cater for themselves. The Bavarian (founded  1913) and Saxon (1907) were also integrated in the respective armies. The Bavarians had two other private  auto-units that later got integrated.

During WW1 there were similar units in Germany with similar arrangements between those civilian clubs and the Prussian/German army for motorboats and landplanes, called Freiwilliges Motorboot-Korps / Kaiserliches Motorboot-Korps and Freiwiliges Flieger-Korps.

The earliest British equivalent was the Motor Volunteer Corps (MVC) formed in 1903.  I’ll be surprised if in this area the French were not the first to have such a voluntary military organisation.

[GreyC]

It was not the official Fahranzug (driver´s coat), that was without fur. But as the drivers were officers AND civilians in service of the German army, they had a bit of leeway in the choice of clothing.

GreyC

5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 I’ll be surprised if in this area the French were not the first to have such a voluntary military organisation.

Well possible. They were the first to employ the train as transport for large troop contingents in the 1850s.

GreyC

[FROGSMILE]

7 minutes ago, GreyC said:

It was not the official Fahranzug (driver´s coat), that was without fur. But as the drivers were officers AND civilians in service of the German army, they had a bit of leeway in the choice of clothing.

GreyC

Well possible. They were the first to employ the train as transport for large troop contingents in the 1850s.

GreyC

Yes it looks as if it is a removable fur collar for the coat (often attached by hook and eye fasteners), a clever way to avoid breaching the letter of regulation whilst permitting easy and practical modification in the field.

It will be interesting to see if a Francophone forum member can confirm the date of the French military automobile equivalent, I will be greatly surprised if there wasn’t one.

Edited 25 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[bierast]

On 25/07/2021 at 10:49, Kurtbio said:

I am writing a biography of Dr Kurt von Holleben (1894-1947) who served in the Saxon Army 1st Field Artillery Regiment No. 12 .

This photograph is a photograph of his father Captain Curt Emil Ludwig von Holleben (1862-1910) who was the son of Prussian General of the Infantry Albert von Holleben.

Curt held the rank of Premier Lieutenant in the Prussian Army 2nd Guard Regiment of Foot before moving on to Captain z.D. in the Guards Landwehr Infantry. He was living in Silesia and then Wiesbaden.

Leaving aside the (splendid) photo, I am aware from my own studies of a Saxon Oberst Kurt von Holleben (1862-1941). This von Holleben was semi-retired (zur Disposition) and commander of Landwehr-Bezirk Zwickau prior to the outbreak of war. During the formation of the new XXVII. Reservekorps (hastily assembled in August-September 1914) he was appointed as commander of RIR 243, and was subsequently awarded the Militär-St. Heinrichs-Orden after personally leading the final assault on the Calvairewald (Justice Wood, north of the better known Polygon Wood) on 14th November 1914 despite having been wounded earlier in the battle. He was later commander of 46. Landwehr-Infanterie-Brigade in 46. Landwehr-Division, and retired after the war with the rank of Generalmajor.

Edited 29 July , 2021 by bierast

[Kurtbio]

Hello Andy

Thank you for the post.

I have this photograph as that of Dr Kurt's grandfather Albert Hermann Ludwig von Holleben (1835–1906) - I have been trying to find where I found it - I thought it was on this Forum somewhere, but I cannot find it now - is this the correct attribution.

The other Kurt you mention (1862-1941) was from the same family but a different branch. The Holleben genealogies refer to three distinct branches which begin in the mid 18th C. Dr Kurt was from branch III and this Kurt from branch I.

The family histories have a little more information.

He was the son of Albert Ludwig Karl v. Holleben (1825-1902) and Anna von Röder

Albert Ludwig Karl v Holleben * Königsee, Thür,. 24.1.1862, d. Rudolfstadt 14.4.1941, auf 1/3 Wildenspring [The family's ancestral manor house] auf Luiengrün, Gen-Maj a. D. 

m. Kleinzschocher 3.8.1901 Paula Freiin v. Tauchnitz, * Breslau 2.8.1879, d. Dresden 16.4.1902, T. d. Kgl. Prussian Oberstlts. a. D. Paul Frhr v. T. auf Bärenklause b. Dresden u. d. Isabella Baronesse Palombini.

BTW - Can I ask which book these German Gothic script mini biographies come from.

 

[AOK4]

36 minutes ago, Kurtbio said:

I have this photograph as that of Dr Kurt's grandfather Albert Hermann Ludwig von Holleben (1835–1906) - I have been trying to find where I found it - I thought it was on this Forum somewhere, but I cannot find it now - is this the correct attribution.

 

The picture shows a general in fieldgray uniform as worn in 1914-1918 (including wearing a wound badge, only issued from 1918 onwards) and developed since 1907, so the picture can definitely not be of someone who died in 1906...

The small biography comes from the Ehrenbuch of the Militär-Sankt-Heinrichs-Orden.

 

Edited 30 July , 2021 by AOK4

[Kurtbio]

Thank you for the information - I will correct my notes accordingly. The General certainly has the features of the Holleben family - Does anyone have a photograph of Albert (1835–1906) it would be interesting to add it into the biography.

Also thanks for the book title - I had not come across that one.

 

[bierast]

As our Flemish friend has correctly pointed out, the German text I posted was from the Ehrenbuch of the Militär-St.-Heinrichs-Orden. This volume simply collects all of the WW1 citations for the Ritterkreuz and Komturkreuz (the officers' grades) of the MStHO, the oldest German and highest Saxon gallantry order. There is incidentally another volume dedicated to the considerably fewer recipients of the Golderne Militär-St.-Heinrichs-Medaille, the highest and rarely granted grade of the related enlisted men's award (the awards of the lower grades of the MStHM were far too numerous to cover in this way).

The photo I posted is unquestionably Generalmajor Kurt von Holleben. There is another picture of him (in the field as commander of RIR 243) on p.121 of our latest book 'For King and Kaiser', which I have added in cropped form below. He is also mentioned by our featured diarist Major (later Oberstleutnant) Alfred von Heygendorff of RIR 245, in his entry for 2nd December 1914:

"First of all to RIR 243. Here I meet my old regimental comrade Kurt v. Holleben who commands this regiment as Oberst. He has had gunshot wounds in the stomach and back on top of his gout, but is still his old self."

How he was still on his feet and commanding his regiment in this condition is a mystery, but it is of course the reason for the wound badge in the previously posted photo. What I find puzzling in that picture is that he inexplicably has 'Swedish' cuffs on his tunic; the explanation probably lies in von Heygendorff's description of him as an "old regimental comrade". Major von Heygendorff had previously served with both of the Saxon 'active' Grenadier regiments (LGR 100 and GR 101), which wore 'Swedish' cuffs adorned with Grenadierlitzen. The tunic worn by von Holleben as a Generalmajor may have originally been a Grenadier one from which the Litzen have been stripped, something fairly common among the enlisted men of non-Grenadier units originally kitted out at the depots of LGR 100 and GR 101 but hitherto unknown among officers (who tended to retain the distinctions from their old peacetime regimental uniform regardless of their current wartime appointment).

Anyhow, this has wandered a long way from the original purpose of this thread... my apologies

Edited 1 August , 2021 by bierast

[bierast]

On 25/07/2021 at 10:49, Kurtbio said:

I am writing a biography of Dr Kurt von Holleben (1894-1947) who served in the Saxon Army 1st Field Artillery Regiment No. 12 .

Incidentally I have a lot of photos of FAR 12, including a group from an officer who appears to have been in the III. Abteilung (like your subject, going by the Offiziersstellenbesetzungslisten in the regimental history). I've checked for you and sadly he is not identified in the few name-annotated group shots I have. However if you need pictures of e.g. other specific officers of FAR 12 do feel free to drop me a PM.