Charing Cross & Dumbell Hill - 19 April 1917, 2nd Battle of Gaza.

[Martyzone]

Hello

I would appreciate some help in figuring out where Charing Cross and Dumbell Hill were - as mentioned in Headquarters, Imperial Camel Corps war diary entry 19 April 1917 (2nd Gaza), Australian War Museum reference AWM4 11/2/5 - April 1917, page 3.

I have studied every map I have found in published books plus online articles but to no avail.  

Thanks in advance, 

Marty

Granddaughter of George Richard Parsons 11/542, 15th Company, 3rd Battalion, Imperial Camel Corps.

 

 

[busterfield]

Some of the places mentioned here along with the posters may help.

 

[busterfield]

Also.

http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A74931

Go to the 3rd map, Gaza--Shellal: Secret

on the right of the map there is a stained/shaded section that contains the two places you are looking for.

[Martyzone]

1 hour ago, busterfield said:

Also.

http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A74931

Go to the 3rd map, Gaza--Shellal: Secret

on the right of the map there is a stained/shaded section that contains the two places you are looking for.

Thanks so much for the link to this map. I have been able to find the places I'm after. I appreciate your help.

Edited 24 July , 2021 by Martyzone
Spelling error.

[Guest]

Marty,

While your question is in the wrong area (should be in the Middle east) do you need any details on the Camel Bde's fight there?

I wrote an account of this battle from the ICC view point if you need it?

I record your relation as;

Parsons    George Richard    11/524    Tpr    Tos 15Co as cook 7-16 to L/Cpl 7-16 to T/Cpl 1-17 to Sgt 6-17 reported WIA 27-11-17 L/hand minor splinter shrapnel at Bald Hill shown to hosp 21-12-17 (6R/WMR & 2Sqn/WMR)    from Masterton NZ
 

Cheers

 

S.B

Edited 10 August , 2021 by stevebecker

[Martyzone]

Hi Steve

Sorry about placing my query in the wrong forum - I have much to learn.

Thanks so much for your generous offer of sharing your post about the 2nd Battle of Gaza however I found it on the forum some time ago. It's a wonderful help thank you. What I would like to know is what part did the ICC have the Beersheba/3rd Gaza battle, if any. Also are there any maps available online for this period?

Yes, my grandfather was WIA November 1917 but slight and remained with his unit. His admission to hospital was due to illness. He spent two months in hospital and convalescence home.

Kind regards

Marilyn 

[Guest]

Marty,

 

The Bde played a minor roll in the 3rd Gaza Battle (31 Oct 1917), but became more active in the following days.

Basicly the Bde attached two Bn's to the British Infantry Corps to the left of Beersheba, while the Infantry help clear the Beersheba defences, the ICC watched the open left flank from Shera.

The following days after its fall (the town) the Bde was sent to the north of Beersheba and became involved in heavy fighting.

This is some I wrote of the movements around that date

Your relation was at that time with the 4th (Anzac) BN of the Camel Bde

ICC Bde movements between 21 Oct to 21 Nov 1917

21-10-17   2xCo's 3Bn ICC + Sqn 5 LHR on operation to Khalosa rtn 28-10-17

22-10-17   4Bn ICC arrived at Abu Shalyum digging/improving wells and making water troughs & Lt Adolph att Intell officer 4Bn HQ

23-10-17   HK&SMB with Cml Bde to Khalasa & 4Bn ICC moved to Khalasa digging/improving wells and making water troughs

27-10-17    Col Newcombe's force made up 2 vickers guns and 8 Lewis guns of 2 officers 16 NCo's from Advance School of Instruction , 5 men from 20th MG Sqn and 3 sigs from 5th Co were ordered to Gamli Station on 28 Oct

28-10-17   2xCos (8Co 10Co) 2Bn ICC to Kent Fort rtn 30-10-17

30-10-17   mixed force under Col Newcombe moved to cut the Beersheba-Hebron road

30-10-17  ICC Bde on operations around Beersheba moved to Taweil el Habari 2xCo's 3Bn ICC replaced 2xCo's 2Bn to Fort Kent and with 10Co att 4Bn ICC reported 3Bn strength 25 officers 647 men

31-10-17 Battle Beersheba

Camel Bde HQ

2Bn (7Co 8Co 9Co 10Co)

3Bn (11Co 12Co 13Co 14Co)

4Bn (15Co 16Co 17Co 18Co)

HK&SMB 26 MG Sqn and ACFA + 2xBn's Royal Fusiliers

 Nov 1917

1-11-17   fighting around Beersheba & Capt Bell replaced Capt Norris 12Co & Capt Day replaced Capt Paterson 8Co & Capt Newsam replaced Capt Day 9Co to T/OC 8Co

2/6-11-17   reported mixed force under Col Newcombe all killed or surrendered north of Kuweilfeh at Daharryeh on the Beersheba- Hebron road

2-11-16    HK&SMB in action at Toweil Abu Jarwal

3-11-17   4Bn ICC relieved British 7th Mtd Bde Yeomanry at Khuweilfeh (15Co had 2 wounded) & Capt Howard replaced Kessels WIA OC 18Co

4-11-17   4Bn ICC relieved by British Infantry (53rd Div) moved back to Beersheba & 2xCo's returned 3Bn ICC

5-11-17   2Bn ICC & 4Bn ICC moved to Ras el Nagb

6-11-17   attack by 3Bn ICC & 53rd Div at Kuweilfeh and Turkish raid on position 4Bn ICC at Ras el Nagb

6-11-17   Capt Dixon replaced Capt Creswell 11Co killed at Kuweilfeh

6-11-17   HK&SMB relieved Somerset Bty at Ras el Nagb

8-11-17   3Bn ICC advance to Wadi Fattas Turks lose 64 men and 3Bn ICC report 105 dead in front of their position.  4Bn ICC under attack by Turks at Ras el Nagb  (15Co had 6 wounded)

8-11-17    Capt Pettit replaced Capt Bunbury 5Co PoW 3-11-17

10-11-17   13Co (4 officers 158 men 4 natives 190 camels) & ICC Bde moved to Sheria

11-11-17   12Co (5 officers 141 men 4 natives 180 camels)

12-11-17   ICC Bde at Julis

13-11-17   ICC Bde arrived Esdud reported 2Bn attacked Yebna with 4Bn in Support the 16Co lost 1 killed and 5 wounded

14-11-17   4Bn ICC arrived at Yebna & 2/Lt O'Keefe arrived 18Co while 2Bn supported NZMB at Ayun Kara

15-11-17   15Co & 13Co moved to Abu Shusheh 17Co & 18Co arrived next day

16/17-11-17   ICC Bde attacked around Abu Shusheh to Barriye

18-11-17   HK&SMB deattached to water at Ludd move att Yeo Mtd Div at Ramlah A Sect under Capt Skilton att 22nd Mtd Bde to Shilta

18-11-17   ICC Bde at Ludd  & 2/Lt Fitzhardinge arrived 11Co

21-11-17   18Co (4 officers 173 men 4 natives 200 camels)

 

Cheers

S.B

Edited 11 August , 2021 by stevebecker

[Martyzone]

Hi Steve

Very many thanks for this info, it's great. I am in the process of writing of my grandfather's overseas service, October 1914 - September 1919, and this will be a big help in placing him. It is an account of where he was and what he experienced rather than an account of the war itself.

Thanks again for all your help.

Marty

 

 

[Guest]

Mate,

Did you find the articale I wrote on the fighting at Bald Hill where he was wounded?

If not I;ll post it?

S.B

[Martyzone]

Yes, thanks so much. I appreciate you sharing your work.